David Davis Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Last year I built a Baron 1914, a classic French trainer dating from the 1970s and based on a WW1 monoplane with massively increased tail surfaces which makes the model look all out of proportion like something in a children's cartoon. If Dick Darstadly were to fly an aeroplane he would fly a Baron. I converted the model to accept ailerons and finished it in spoof Russian WW1 colours. It's fitted with an OS 40FS but I haven't flown it yet because the weather has been unsuitable or I have had other committments. However, I had my entry for the Coupe Des Barons, (Barons'Cup,) accepted last month and was given the competition number 247 which means that I am the 247th pilot to enter the competition since it started and I will retain this number for life. It's a bit like being selected to play cricket for England! There will be about 80 pilots at the event on 2nd June. To give you some idea of what the Coupe Des Barons is all about, have a look at this: **LINK** If I were to say that the event produced a number of damaged models each year I could be accused of understatement! There are four seperate tests on the day: 1. Baguettes in which several one metre long balsa sticks are pushed into the ground. You take off with up to nine other contestants and the one who knocks over the most sticks in a ten minute period, wins the round. 2. Pylon this is just a pyon race against whatever models have survived round 1. 3. Renard This is held after a typically French lunch and takes the form of trying to cut off a streamer towed by a 40 sized trainer. 4. Limbo. You have to fly underneath an enlarged soccer goal. The one who does it most times in ten minutes is the winner. However, ailerons are banned in the event so I will have to build another wing for the competition. All models must have a pilot, a machine gun and a set of dummy wing warping wires. Then a thought occurred to me, "What if I pranged the model the week before the event? It would be useful to have a spare wouldn't it?" Having missed a couple of ready-built Barons on the internet I have decided to accept the offer of a club colleague who has a partly built Baron in his workshop. Being an ex-patriot Englishman I am going to finish this Reserve Model in inter-war RAF colours but I have a dilemna about whether to fit an electric motor or a two-stroke engine and if the latter whether to fit a Merco 35 or an SC32. A 35 two-stroke is the largest you can use in the event. Do I fit the Merco 35 and get the extra few points for having a period engine? Do I fit the SC 32 and have the extra power? Or do I fit an electric motor, probably made in China, to the Reserve Model thereby avoiding any chance of engine malfunction on the day? I consider myself to be pretty good at setting up engines. I'll be finishing the Reserve Model in spoof RAF colours and as an expatriate Englishman my heart says fit the British Merco! My head says fit the Chinese electric motor! I'll have to test run the Merco on the test stand when it stops raining. . Edited By David Davis on 16/03/2018 07:52:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 A nice quandary to have David. You are good with motors, and you may not need plan B, if number 1 model survives. If I knew the Merco history or it was mine from new, I would not hesitate, Fit the Merco If the Merco was pre-owned, then fit the SC. Just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 This looks like good fun, are ailerons banned for the whole event or just the Limbo ? Couldn't you just disconnect the ailerons ? Watching with interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I admire your stamina, I personally have difficulty standing after a club lunch. Use the power plant you are familiar with, less chance of finger chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The video following has some good pictures and Im sure I saw one with a foam wing that had the tip missing which might be a good idea. **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Don, I bought both engines second hand. The SC looked new and required running in before it performed faultlessly on the test stand. The Merco I've had for some time but not used for decades. I'm committed to an afternoon's work at the local charity store surrounded by French ladies no longer in the very first flush of youth, otherwise I'd get the Merco on the test stand! Trebor I saw that foam winged model, no 204 right? The rules state that wings have to be the same shape as the original model plus or minus 10% area. The materials are not specified but as I have most of the wing ribs cut out for the Russian wing and a complete kit for the Reserve Model I'll build it as per original. I could just disconnect the ailerons, indeed there is a model in the 2016 You Tube clip which features taped up ailerons, model 199 finished in red and transluscent yellow. However, I have reduced the dihedral on my model quite substantially and it may not be very stable without the ailerons. 199 looks to have stock dihedral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Where did you get your kit from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 I got my kit from the original French producer, Baron Models but I don't think they're producing kits anymore. This company sells the Svenson Vicomte which was the same model produced under licence.**LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 PS. Can anybody suggest a good site with images of inter-war RAF aircraft, usually registered K something, doped in silver with colourful squadron markings? I plan to finish the Reserve Model in a similar scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Try the Hawker Hart at Tangmere museum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Gillings 2 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Hi, the plan is on Outerzone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 What`s the standard wingspan as I`ve seen 3 different sizes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Posted by trebor on 18/03/2018 11:21:52: What`s the standard wingspan as I`ve seen 3 different sizes ? According to the label on the box of my genuine Baron Models "Baron 1914," the wingspan is 1550mm which is pretty well 61" exactly. In the competition you are allowed 10% tolerance on the original: **LINK** Barons have been produced in both larger and smaller forms but the competition is for the original sized Baron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 It would be a good idea to start a competition off like this in our country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Posted by trebor on 18/03/2018 11:45:48: It would be a good idea to start a competition off like this in our country Yeah. Maybe with kit-built WOT 4s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I think you'd have to go back in time. Its got to be vintage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I was thinking along these lines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHR6yZDAySM Edited By trebor on 18/03/2018 12:33:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Posted by trebor on 18/03/2018 12:02:27: I think you'd have to go back in time. Its got to be vintage. I wouldn't mind seeing a bunch of Radio Queens powered by nothing bigger than a 52 fourstroke participating in a pylon race! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Happy New Year Gentlemen! I believe that Sam 35 will be organising a pylon race for Junior 60s this year. Maximum engine size 35 twostroke and 45 fourstroke. They must have taken a leaf out of La Coupe's book! The 2019 Coupe Des Barons will take place in September and the organisers have increased the maximum size of eligible four-strokes from a 40 to a 52 to give us fourstroke lovers a chance against the ubiquitous OS 35AX. Deep joy! I I have four suitable engines the best of which is an OS52 Surpass. However, the benefit of your advice is sought. The flying element of the competition consists of four flying tests each of which lasts for a timed five minutes, see my first post on this thread. Only the pylon race calls for out and out speed. However, models can be in the air for ten or more minutes if the Contest Director feels that there is a potential safety problem, or if a contestant's engine stops in flight before the official start of the round and the CD gives the competitor extra time to start his engine. Given all of the above, what is the minimum size fuel tank you would recommend for a Baron powered by a 52 fourstroke? I want to save weight wherever I can without compromising strength. Nice picture of last year's competitors for you to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I think a six ounce, but, you need to test if that is big enough for the pylon element. But I think you will be good to go. You might get away with a 4 oz, but you would be marginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I'd go with 8oz myself. 52 Surpass, roughly equals a good .45 on standard silencer, or, a piped 40. It'd be the smart I.C. choice I think. Prop, 10x8 (yes, really) on the pylon race, and 13x4 for the other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Put the largest one in that will fit, after all, you don’t have to fill it with fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire. I doubt a J60 will notice a few extra oz so go large! For props 10x8 may not offer the thrust needed to overcome the drag of the J60 so might be slower than 11x7. You would have to test. 13x5 works well on os52's if you dont need speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 It's not for a j60 jon.But a good point, try a few different props if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Posted by Nigel R on 02/01/2019 11:27:08: It's not for a j60 jon.... No but they are about the same size and there's nothing in the rules about not being able to change the props . I'm working on the wing now. Upright or side mounted engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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