Don Fry Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Permit in law is a bit more restrictive. Lend someone your car with duff tyres is permitting its use. Knowing someone else has duff tyres on a car not controlled by you is not permitting in law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Interestingly, I just noticed a bit about this in the BMFA Handbook while looking at it on another matter which I'm ashamed to say that I don't recall seeing before. While I understand and endorse the concept of encouraging personal thought and awareness of safety issues, the BMFA position is clearly against the "every member is a safety officer" approach! (My italics) 11.3 The Club Safety Officer If it is considered to be appropriate, a Club should appoint a competent CLUB SAFETY OFFICER whose duties would be to ensure that both the BMFA and the Club Safety Codes are followed. However, a Safety Officer acting alone has an almost impossible task and some form of infrastructure should be set up within the club to help the designated officer. The most successful way to do this is to make the task of Assistant Safety Officer part of the duties of every Committee member. These Assistants then report to the designated Safety Officer when required. This will keep the Safety Group to a manageable size but will ensure that there is a recognised safety presence at most flying sessions. If it is felt that this might not be enough, you can appoint other responsible club members as assistants too. Examiners, Instructors or senior club members might all be candidates. It is not recommended that you appoint ‘all club members’ as their own safety officers. Such an approach loses the focus of a smaller group and can become ineffective. Clubs should educate and encourage their members, particularly new or junior members, to conform to Club safety requirements and should have no hesitation in disciplining persistent offenders. Edited By Martin Harris on 22/03/2019 11:20:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Our S.O is there because of ambiguity, if we can't decide and get on and fly, instead of endlessly arguing the toss, bowing to the alpha male, or the just lazy, he will make a decision, he wears no hi viz, carries no little black book, reports to no one. His only job is to prevent stupid rows developing, the legal obligations belong as they always have, with you the pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 All our club members are issued with a copy of the club rules and safety codes (sent annually on renewal) and it is a signed condition of membership that individuals are conversant with the contents of those documents and will abide by them. Individual members are quite at liberty to suggest changes to the rules or safety procedures and these will be considered by the committee and if agreed, implimented. The book of rules is not set in stone like some some religious or political dogma and will need reviewing from time to time because of changing technology or anything else. An effective committee, engaged members, good communications and everyone working for the benefit of everyone else, works for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 Posted by John Stainforth on 22/03/2019 10:25:02: David, I am a little bit amazed that you are not too fond of safety officers - particularly given your position of influence. John Change my mind then John... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 anyone who fancies doing the job of safety officer-think carefully. Chances are you want to do the job as you feel as though your contributing to the club functioning and putting something else back in. the reality probably will be that you are putting your head on a stick and will have no respect from a minority of members who see you as a killjoy etc. the club rules are there to be applied but sometimes they are ignored if no committee members are present. so if anyone is thinking about doing the SO role be prepared for occasional Agro...which you may/may not be able to sort on behalf of the "club" over the years iv'e done a few different club roles...chairman, secretary, safety officer and examiner...the chairman,secretary roles because no-one else would do them..... at the time.... ken anderson...ne...1...SO dept. Edited By ken anderson. on 11/04/2019 15:20:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Balaam Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 I had to leave a club a couple of years ago because the so called Safety Officer took joy in telling others what to do whilst being the worst offender of safety rules himself. Give some people a little bit of authority and it gets abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thacker Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 There seem to be a lot of amusing anecdotes here but not a great deal of thought about whether a SO is a necessary role within a club. If you think it is not, I wonder who you think is responsible for coordinating actions concerning safety when they are required. It can't be 'everyone' because we all know that when that is the case 'everyone' thinks someone else will do it. My main club flies on MoD property which is also open to the public for walking, cycling, the occasional horse rider, and a lot of dog walkers, many of them professional walkers judging by the number of dogs they are in charge of. It is part of our agreement and our licence conditions that we have a Safety Plan and a club officer to review and maintain that plan. The plan is reviewed by the MoD prior to issuing a new annual licence. We also maintain a register of unplanned 'arrivals' which contributes to the plan review. We need a focal point to receive, analyse and initiate action where necessary. That does not mean every individual flyer is not responsible for the safe execution of each and every flight he makes. It does not absolve every individual member from acting if (s)he sees an action or situation they believe to be unsafe. That happens to be the law as well. My point is a SO is required in my club and I am left wondering in what circumstances a well run club would not require one. Making the right choice of individual is the responsibility of the committee, and if that choice proves unwise they can make another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR 71 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 We don't have a SO at our club, and we don't really have any problems, if someone flies dangerously there's some load calls to the pilot We don't have the 20kg rule either but don't see dangerous models Also we are not have all this drone argument and the resulting leglistration that's coming your way Flying paradise Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Geezer Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 We don't have an S.O. either - but any dodgey flying attracts comments from fellow flyers (full time pee-takers all) that ensures there's no repetition! Embarrassing yourself in front of your mates is far worse than a private rollicking from a club official any day of the week. Most dangerous flying is due to a momentary loss of attention/concentration - sadly something that often comes with age, and the majority of our members are of pensionable age - and the pilot will be aware that he has strayed from the paths of richousness before most onlookers. I don't think anyone "goes down to the field" with the intention of breaking club rules let alone intending to fly in an unsafe manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Acland Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 We are all safety officers for the simple reason that the Safety officer cannot be at the field when every flying session is taking place. There is however normally one committee member present to note any transgressions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Miles 2 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 We have no safety officer. We do have a Committee. A very good one. We also issue members with a rule book which can also be accessed on line. New members or prospective members will be given a walk round of the site and general briefing, by a Committee member. We are BMFA affiliated. Our rule book, which is no encyclopaedia, contains all relevant information regarding the site, including relevant safety information and expected behaviour. It does not, however, and for example, advise people never to put their fingers through the prop arc while the motor or engine is running! It is a condition of membership that club rules be followed and that failure to abide by them could result in membership being terminated. As somebody else has said, when members feel that they have been placed in danger, or potential danger, by a third party, it tends to invite comment or a report to the Committee. Only once, in my experience, has a member been sanctioned after repeated breaches of flying field procedures. Personally ,and presumably the view of the Committee, I see no need for a designated Safety Officer in relatively small organisations of this nature where such responsibilities can be just as effectively shared jointly by the Committee or a Committee member co-opted on occasions as required to deal with any specific issue. As for any suggestion of having a designated person always on-site, wearing a hi-viz jacket emblazoned with the words “Safety Officer”, well.......... 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Holmes 2 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 As a retired H&S officer with 11 years experience I am one of the old school type. Common sence is all that is needed. If I was to say to you that if you decided to climb that tree without suitable equipment and fall out of it, It's going to hurt like hell or worse. So I would not recommend you do it. But the decision is yours. Our club does have a Safety Officer / Training Officer as both of these roles run hand in hand with one and other and we have not had any accidents for a good number of years now. We have no fly zones in place and start up areas away from the main pit area. Pilots only stand in the pilot box and non members stand within a marked area away from the pit areas. H&S has had the fingers pointed at it for several years now as being the cause of cancelled or banned events etc. It's the suing culture that has brought this on. Clubs, schools, societies etc, cannot afford to pay out the claims put against them for minor mishaps (little Johnny has been hit by a piece of broken conker, so ban them from playing conkers) type of thing. Insurance companies are then forced to up their prices or refuse to give cover. H&S is a neccessary evil which sadly we have to live with in every day life. Have somebody within the club just to keep an eye on the know it all member that all clubs have and keep safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 There is no option to be able to post "sometimes". Our safety officers don't tend to last long, too much hassle from some members, even though we have a very clear set of rules. Funny that, its supposed to be a hobby with like minded people joining the club. Edited By Andy48 on 21/04/2020 20:32:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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