CAA Registration Impact on STEM Activities

[Nightflyer]

I know! We are all fed up with all the chat about registration etc. However, despite myself and I am sure others who raised their concerns about impacting STEM activities, I wonder how many are seeing the fallout now registration is live?

So I am a STEM Ambassador within my organisation, and talking to a fellow colleague they advised me of a project they are supporting for a local school. Said project is to design and build a model aircraft that can carry a camera. The team have been working on it since just before the announcement of the requirements, and are building their model. A lot of good work had been done by them to date. When I mentioned the need for Operator registration etc they were surprised.

This prompted communications within my organisation (which is multi-national) and there had been a general awareness and guidelines to avoid undertaking any such projects that involve model aircraft when registration requirements became more public.

I will not go in depth on this as there are some ongoing discussions but wondered how many others are involved in STEM and have already come across problems?

From what has come to light from within our own STEM people and liaisons with other organisations there are some issues and concerns for the future of STEM activities involving model aircraft.

Key observations:

Not all STEM individuals or organising bodies are aware of the registration.

Not all schools or colleges are aware of the need for registration.

Organisations supporting STEM activities are already blocking any such model aircraft based projects.

Responsibility for registration of operators? Should it be the project team/teacher and/or STEM support from industry, etc?

Apparently a few projects have already been blocked and sadly the team's enthusiasm lost as a consequence. This is not good for encouraging the next generation of engineers be it in model flying, aerospace, or engineering in general.

It would be good to know whether others have already encountered such issues and how they have overcome them. Equally I wonder if bodies such as the BMFA are already aware of the impact that is emerging?

[kc]

1. you should have explained what STEM is !

2. If teachers cannot find out about registering as a model aircraft operator then they should not be be trying to teach about model aircraft! Blind leading the blind?

3. Perhaps registration is a good idea after all!   Maybe it is best if uninformed people are not going  to teach others about model aircraft!

Edited By kc on 07/01/2020 13:55:07

[Alan Gorham_]

If educational bodies are aware of registration, then why is registration a blocker to a project?

If the Educational Lead (teacher/lecturer) is not prepared to register as an operator then that is down to them, not the registration system.

It could be argued that there is some real-world educational value is taking students through registration to demonstrate compliance?

The BMFA offer STEM projects, the biggest being the Flight Test Challenge (or whatever it's called now) but each BMFA area should have an Education Co-Ordinator. They are frequently contacted by educational establishments to help support projects such as this.

[Nightflyer]

Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 07/01/2020 14:11:41:

If educational bodies are aware of registration, then why is registration a blocker to a project?

If the Educational Lead (teacher/lecturer) is not prepared to register as an operator then that is down to them, not the registration system.

It could be argued that there is some real-world educational value is taking students through registration to demonstrate compliance?

The BMFA offer STEM projects, the biggest being the Flight Test Challenge (or whatever it's called now) but each BMFA area should have an Education Co-Ordinator. They are frequently contacted by educational establishments to help support projects such as this.

Educational bodies such as schools do not appear to be aware in this instance, and nor potentially are STEM bodies supporting the schools.

I agree with your comments on the Educational Lead and about the educational value in taking students through the registration process.

I suspect that as far as the 'Educational Lead's' are concerned that they are mainly rank and file teachers who don't have an outside work interest in model flying which does not help matters, but equally is possibly why we such limited promotion of after school hours activities for students these days in a number of activity areas.

However, as far as industry STEM bodies possibly now refusing to support projects. It is as much about the almighty mess made in the reporting, visibility and guidance of registration that has led to the adoption of a negative position.

It might help be offset if there is increased visibility or liaison by BMFA Education Co-Ordinators.

I know that in many instances opportunities only exist for activities in part by school/college/education staff being prepared to go the extra mile and the support of industry and sporting bodies that anything much happens these days.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Our local Air Cadets were/are building a quad/drone, they weren't aware of the regs............. If the CAA can't even make them aware what chance do they have with less aviation minded bodies.

I have to keep pointing out to the 13 years old aviation mad lad we have given a 40" wingspan 2 channel glider that he needs to get his Dad to get an operator ID and he needs to take the exam and get a flyer ID, he noted that none of his mates who had quads were aware of this.

Basically the CAA has successfully introduced a scheme which covers those who are abreast of the regulations and already following the rules, not sure if that is what they intended.

[Peter Jenkins]

Posted by kc on 07/01/2020 13:50:57:

1. you should have explained what STEM is !

2. If teachers cannot find out about registering as a model aircraft operator then they should not be be trying to teach about model aircraft! Blind leading the blind?

3. Perhaps registration is a good idea after all! Maybe it is best if uninformed people are not going to teach others about model aircraft!

Edited By kc on 07/01/2020 13:55:07

STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths. As no one else has answered your question.

[Alan Gorham_]

I'm curious as to why the OP should HAVE to explain what STEM is?

Is this new forum policy to explain acronyms?

FFS

[Peter Jenkins]

I have to say that I am not surprised that the Education world is not aware of the CAA regs. I have a son and daughter-in-law who were unaware of a number of well publicised changes to much bigger issues such as the replacement of the toll booths on the Dartford Crossing and the introduction of an ultra clean zone in central London. My son rang me to say, delightedly, that they had done away with the Dartford tolls! I had to disabuse him of that idea and told him to get on and pay the charge on line before midnight! My Daughter-in-law, a head of department, drove into London for a meeting on 2 consecutive days and was blithely unaware/ignored all the signs about the ultra clean zone - she drives a diesel car. As for the CAA regs, my son was about to embark on a multi rotor project to get his computing students to carry out the programming required for the craft to follow a number of way points. I pointed out that there were regulations in force about maintaining visual line of sight and ones coming along (this was last Sept) that would required additional actions.

Now, if qualified teachers are so blind to what is going on in the world that directly affects them what hope have we got that their students will grow up understanding that it is insufficient to rely on all your news reaching you via social media and so called influencers. Heaven help us if the BBC gets disestablished and we lose all our print newspapers.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Alan Gorham_]

Yes in formal document or publication I understand the convention. This is a hobbyists forum for a technical hobby. Do we really HAVE to formally introduce acronyms (of which our hobby is full)?

[kc]

If you use acronyms then it seem polite to explain what the letters stand for at the first use. ( unless of course they are in normal everyday use) As far as I am aware this is the first time STEM has been used on this forum.    It does not appear in Modelflying's Glossary.

A Google search revealed some info about STEM but a quick look at ' about us' on their website failed to provide me with a clear idea whether they are a government organisation, a club, a charity. a group of employers, a group of well intentioned enthusiasts or just an organisation making money out of this subject! It would be nice to know which applies..

It won't do aeromodelling much good to be used as teaching tool by people who have little knowledge of the subject. Better to let these projects disappear.

 

Edited By kc on 07/01/2020 17:47:03

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[kevin b]

Here's a pretty accurate mathematical calculation for you.

ACRONYMS + Text speak = Lazy use of the English language.

[AndyD]

if I had to google a acronym every time just to find out what people where talking about then I wouldn't do much reading on here,common sence just to explain at the start of a post.

[Pete B]

Now that we all know what STEM is, perhaps we can concentrate on the thread topic, eh?....

Pete

[Don Fry]

stem¹

noun

the main body or stalk of a plant or shrub, typically rising above ground but occasionally subterranean.

To return, the class is doing what is a toy aeroplane, whatever the engineering and scientific applications. An operators licence, followed by a discussion, at what point do the pupils need a fliers licence, becomes just a job too far.

An analogy, build and demonstrate a simple steam engine. Or a slightly more efficient engine, bit more pressure, bit more temperature between hot end and cold. Need a licence. Don't go there. Operating in an headwind, hardworking professionals just avoid stress and work.

Edited By Don Fry on 07/01/2020 19:23:35

[Malcolm Fisher]

I used to be a teacher of Craft Design and Technology (CDT). My first knowledge of STEM was a programme of teaching notes (which I think I still have copies somewhere). Then the STEM stood for Scottish Technical Education Manuals.
They were quite useful for some techniques but not used much in my school.

Malcolm

[kc]

Well now we all know what STEM stands for ( in 2 versions!)

Frankly the way to improve technical capabilites in the younger generation surely should be to return to teaching boys woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing at 11 years ( or nowadays perhaps before ) as was done in the 1950's and 60's. This produced a generation who could put up a shelf, mend the lawnmower etc etc and some found they had a gift for such things and became engineers etc. Of course it also gave every boy the chance to use his strength and energy on something useful. Every boy was also taught how to safely use edged tools, lathes, grinders, forges and blow torches knowledge which probably lasted throughout his lifetime.

The selling off of school woodwork and metalwork equipment and failure to teach these subjects is surely the root cause of todays lack of technical skills. The time, effort and persistance needed to make a useful object such as a footstool etc was as worthwhile a lesson in life as the skills with tools.

Forget the acronyms get back to basic skills.

Edited By kc on 08/01/2020 12:53:20

[Andy48]

An interesting point now is that the new regulations have introduced an age limit. 18 to got a licence on ones own, and 13 to fly with a parent or guardian. What about those under 13? Are they now barred from flying at all?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[kc]

One can drive a car at 17 but not be the operator of a drone!

In my day most people left school at 15 or 16 and by having to work with adults quickly became responsible adults. Couldn't vote until 21 though, so perhaps 5 or 6 years of work & experience paying income tax is needed before being allowed to vote now. I don't recall there being any shortage of people with the skills needed back in the 1960's and that was when we had plenty of factories making everything from Concorde to cameras. Why is there a shortage now? Perhaps it's because most youngsters today go to university and study what are really hobby subjects rather than study something useful that is essential for industry.

[Malcolm Fisher]

kc - I agree wholeheartedly with your two latest posts. We had a course for less academically motivated pupils teaching them such things as plastering, painting, simple plumbing, concrete mixing and car maintenance - all useful DIY skills. For some years I also ran an after school aeromodelling "club" which was well supported by the pupils involved.

Malcolm

[kevin b]

Posted by kc on 08/01/2020 12:42:19:

Well now we all know what STEM stands for ( in 2 versions!)

Frankly the way to improve technical capabilites in the younger generation surely should be to return to teaching boys woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing at 11 years ( or nowadays perhaps before ) as was done in the 1950's and 60's. This produced a generation who could put up a shelf, mend the lawnmower etc etc and some found they had a gift for such things and became engineers etc. Of course it also gave every boy the chance to use his strength and energy on something useful. Every boy was also taught how to safely use edged tools, lathes, grinders, forges and blow torches knowledge which probably lasted throughout his lifetime.

The selling off of school woodwork and metalwork equipment and failure to teach these subjects is surely the root cause of todays lack of technical skills. The time, effort and persistance needed to make a useful object such as a footstool etc was as worthwhile a lesson in life as the skills with tools.

Forget the acronyms get back to basic skills.

Edited By kc on 08/01/2020 12:53:20

What about the girls ?

To be honest (TBH), a lot of the kids these days would have made me look like the school bully (I was the whimp)! Didn't the girls do a lot of manual skilled jobs between 1939 and 1945 ?

I'm all in favour of youngsters learning hand / eye coordinated skills, but who is going to teach them. As far back as I can remember the education system has only been interested in producing more educators. Trades people were always considered second class.

Time to get off the soap box I think.

[SR 71]

They dont want anything in their hands that weighs more than a phone nowdays

[Reno Racer]

I rarely post my on here anymore, but this thread sparked my eye.

My experience with STEM and the CAA is a mixed bag. My recent discussions with them on protection of GA airfields and their essential status for the start of the pilot training pipeline (initial flying training) and an inclusion into the GA strategy hasn’t yet delivered a result. Without easy affordable access to aviation to start their flying careers we are not helping the next generation fill the supposed pilot shortage.

We run an aviation scholarship each year and my interviews with those applicants from local Air Cadet Squadrons highlighted how little the kids actually learn these days(in science and aviation subjects) in stark contrast to what I did as an Air Cadet. I went to chat with the local area commander, offering my services to help. You would have thought they’d grasp the offer of help from an Airport Manager, recently retired senior officer, active pilot and much less active (lack of time) RC aeromodeller offering help to get kids into aviation..... zero.

Most of the pilots I know, started off with RC models. Beyond restricting aeromodelling access with the new laws, if we can’t even inspire kids into aviation, or increase access we are loosing the battle. I hear lots of talk of STEM- engineers are good at it (also a Chartered Engineer) but aviation is still miles behind, despite lots of individual efforts and policy notes from the CAA.

This is just another lump of ice on the wing of our rapidly descending hobby.

When we get the kids into it, they are the same as they’ve always been. Many of our 2 week scholarship kids are now either training, have a PPL, are flying instructors or now commercial pilots. It does work and I don’t think it’s the kids fault if we don’t help them.

Edited By Reno Racer on 08/01/2020 18:57:35