Is there a list of frequencies we can use in the UK?

[Christopher Morris 2]

 

Hi, Is there a list of plane/drone frequencies we can use in the UK I realise many use 2.4GHz, but i see the words Crossfire, RM9 long range in the 800-900 frequencies & all of these are sold in many UK outlets. Are these all illegal?

Thanks

Edited By Christopher Morris 2 on 27/05/2020 07:07:47

Edited By Christopher Morris 2 on 27/05/2020 07:10:35

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 27/05/2020 08:22:27

[Trevor Crook]

Full list here:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/radio-spectrum-and-the-law/licence-exempt-radio-use/licence-exempt-devices/Radio-controlled-models

[Christopher Morris 2]

Ah! Thanks for the link. isn't it strange that many UK outlets sell these items & are not worried about Ofcom?

Quote:

"Ofcom will take enforcement action where non-compliance becomes apparent. Devices which only have the FCC markings but are not CE marked cannot be lawfully placed on the market or put into service in the UK. This includes much of the apparatus which is designed to operate in the 868 - 915 MHz band."

Which is what crossfire is, as I understand it. Frequency Bands: 868MHz (EU, Russia) / 915MHz (USA, Asia, Australia)

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Isn't the use of 863 - 870MHz allowed under the ISM band and EU rules?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Would this help?

[Christopher Morris 2]

Looks like this is pointed at the EU. Don't think we are part of that club anymore?? You think there would be one simple paragraph with a simple list that said you can use this only in the UK. "Simple"

[Nigel R]

Transition period runs until early next year so EU laws still apply, I think?

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Richard Clark 2]

Posted by Christopher Morris 2 on 27/05/2020 12:50:20:

Looks like this is pointed at the EU. Don't think we are part of that club anymore?? You think there would be one simple paragraph with a simple list that said you can use this only in the UK. "Simple"

A list of things you CAN do would get very long. EG: That we can pat our heads while rubbing our stomachs in either clockwise or anti-clockwise directions would need to be on the list.

Also only those who have never exceeded the speed limit would ever worry about whether the referenced Jeti was legal in the UK or not. It is  even less likely to be policed than speeding and anyway we could debate whether the use of the Jeti, if illegal, is 'honourable' or not until the heat death of the universe.

Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 27/05/2020 13:44:59

[BackinBlack]

868MHz can be used for Radio Control, providing the ERP(radiated power) is not in excess of 25mW. See here, page 22: IR 2030

Edited By BackinBlack on 27/05/2020 14:42:02

[Frank Skilbeck]

It's not just the frequencies but also the broadcast power, for instance many 5.8 GHz video transmitters can be set to broadcast more than the allowed 25 mW. Even on 2.4 GHz some radios sold use the US higher power allowance and don't use Listen Before Transmit, or allow users to change from the EU LBT standard to the US standard.

But you are more likely to be caught doing 33 mph in a 30 mph limit.

[Phil Green]

Posted by BackinBlack on 27/05/2020 14:41:36:

868MHz can be used for Radio Control, providing the ERP(radiated power) is not in excess of 25mW. See here, page 22: IR 2030

Where model control is permitted, Offcom use the Application descriptor 'model control'
'May be used airborne' doesnt mean model control

Cheers
Phil

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Simon Chaddock]

It could be said that it was ignoring existing rules that brought about the new regulations for UAVs.

[Phil Green]

Posted by Steve J on 27/05/2020 18:07:46:

"In addition to the frequencies above, radio control models may also share the frequency bands allocated to General Non-Specific Short Range Devices with all other such applications."

Ofcom radio control page, under the table of 'Model Control' frequencies.

What they are saying Steve is that most bands where model control is allowed, are not exclusive. They are shared with other legit users. From the very same document, just below your quote:

6. What technical conditions for model control and UAV have to be met?

All model control equipment must operate within the frequency bands shown above and the effective radiated power of the equipment must not exceed that shown alongside the frequency band in the table above.

Note particularly that 868 is not in the 'table above'

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Phil Green]

The uk version has exactly the same quote:

What technical conditions for model control and UAV must be met?

All model control equipment must operate within the frequency bands shown above and the effective radiated power of the equipment must not exceed that shown alongside the frequency band in the table above.

... and the 'frequency bands shown above' make no reference to model control on 868

Note also that the "What bands are available" [for model control] table at the foot of the page includes 27, 35, 40, 49, 459 and 2400 but excludes 868. It it is legal it will be the only model control band not specifically documented as such.

 

 

Edited By Phil Green on 28/05/2020 13:40:20

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

The way these regulations are set out makes them pretty much impossible for mere mortals to interpret - Steve's logic makes sense but I know that Phil is very knowledgeable in the area of radio. However, I find it hard to understand why there has not been an outcry at least in Germany, where we're lead to believe that strict adherence to rules and regulations are the norm and Jeti is a very popular radio system, if Dr. Jelen has claimed that his "900" MHz equipment is compliant with EU legislation in error. The copy of IR2030 I've looked at is dated Nov. 18 so escaping the clutches of the EU doesn't appear to be relevant.

[Trevor Crook]

Blimey, there was I thinking I'd given a simple answer to a simple question at the start of this thread. Should I have just responded "No"?!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Phil Green]

Posted by Steve J on 28/05/2020 08:16:01:

Posted by Phil Green on 27/05/2020 19:40:35:

The uk version has exactly the same quote:

I know. I referred to it in my 19:31 post.

Anyway, as you don't seem to be able to understand the phrase 'in addition', there is very little point discussing this with you so I'm going to say goodbye.

Wow. Chill Steve

all I'm saying is that if it is a legit R/C band then its not specifically documented as such like all the other R/C bands are.

Edited By Phil Green on 28/05/2020 15:06:12

[Dickw]

So, in summary :-

868/915 is a legal frequency in Eu/FCC areas respectively if the technology is done right - but perhaps not for model control.

The Jeti system uses the 900 frequency only as a backup in case the 2.4 is wiped out (e.g. illegal 2.4 booster nearby).

So the Jeti 900 is not used for model control (and therefore legal) unless the 2.4 is swamped, and even in that case it remains legal as long as you don't move the sticks (i.e. try to control the model).

The pilot then has a decision to make - does he land the model safely, but perhaps illegally, using the 900, or does he remain legal and leave it to crash somewhere?

sorry - couldn't resist the temptation.

Dick

[Phil Green]

I've asked Ofcom for clarification, the initial conversation suggests that the documentation is far from up to date and that spectrum control has gone to pot... and that the UKRCC isnt properly supported by Ofcom. Maybe Jeti themselves could give a document reference. I cant imagine a company like Jeti getting it wrong.

[Peter Christy]

Does the UKRCC still exist? I used to be on it, but haven't heard from them in years!

Back when I attended meetings, Ofcom always had a representative there. A very helpful and knowledgeable chap he was, too!

--

Pete