Phoenix 2000

[Tosh McCaber]

Further to my thread re the death of my Phoenix 2 meter motor glider, and awaiting delivery of my replacement (I do like the Phoenix), I'm looking for a motor to replace the original clunky and heavy Volantex 4023. On watching one of Alan Moore's videos on YouTube, (and several others), he replaced it with a lighter and more compact Turnigy 2836 Aerodrive SK3 - 2836-1500, driving a 10x6 prop.. Unfortunately, looking at the Hobbyking site, there are none available- worldwide.

Can any Phoenix flyers, or anyone else, give me some guiance on what might be a suitable replacement motor?

Thanks in advance!

[Clive Jones 4]

You could try one of these in 1500Kv guise - the bumf says you should use it with a 40A ESC (I think the Volantex is 30A) and a 9X6 prop with a 2 cell battery for about just over a kilogramme of "pull" (I think they mean thrust!)

**LINK**

Clive.

Clive.

[Tosh McCaber]

Thanks Cive- The problem is, thx to Covit, Im not sure about delivery times from China at the moment- are there any equivalents available of the shelf in the UK, (at a reasonable cost!)

[kc]

I think the Phoenix 2000 is like the 1600 in that it needs a motor with a shaft that protrudes through the backplate - that is the backplate goes at the nose of the plane. Most of the 4 Max motors are like that, so the usual comment of " ask George at 4 Max" for advice on which motor should apply here too.

[John Muir]

A Tornado Thumper 2836 1120kv at £20 from Sussex Model Centre would do the job. I use a 1000kv motor in my Phoenix mk1 with a 10x6 and get about 210W on a 3S battery, which is perfectly adequate as far as I'm concerned.

Edited By John Muir on 23/07/2020 12:31:26

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

4-Max do a 2830 motor in both 1210 and 1350 flavours. However I would question an SK3 2836 1500 on 10 x 6 prop.

HK give max current as 21a.

Running the figures through eCalc, with a 3s pack and 10 x 6 prop gives 59a at full throttle, well above the safety limit. My choice would be the 1210 from 4-max.

This gives a max current (10 sec) of 28a. Note they do also suggest a 9 x 4.5 prop. If you go with the 1210, do a quick run up with the 10 x 6 prop, check it does not exceed the safe limit.

If so, maybe a 9 x 5 or 4.5 might be a better fit.

Just my thoughts

Jeff

[David Hall 9]

A 28mm motor has to be pushed to get the Phoenix 2000 to move around satisfactorily. A 3536 motor on a 3s battery will allow a lower KV and will not heat up as quickly. There's plenty of space in the fus.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

If you have 2 weeks time - use banggood. same motors, low prices. They obviously send only full containers to Europe, therefore the delivery time.

[Bob Bertram]

In my MK1 I use an emax bl2220/07 with a 40a ESC, 3s 2200 and a 9x6 prop. I bought the bare kit about 6 years ago, it is my most flown model and out climbs those that have all the bits already fitted.

[Geoff S]

I have a Hobbyking Gliderdrive 960kv in my Mk 1 Phoenix 2k. Being an enclosed outrunner with rear connections it avoids a lot of the difficulties associated with a tight fitting.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff S on 23/07/2020 14:13:20

[ron evans]

Tosh, I'm with David on motor size, get one at least 35mm dia, it will be a lot more effective than something smaller.

One thing to watch out for is the way  motors are described.

My Emax BL 28/20 is actually 38mm o/d.

The 28/20 refers to the stator diameter and length.

Ron

Edited By ron evans on 23/07/2020 14:30:15

[John Muir]

On the other hand, a 2826-1000 fits easily, leaving plenty of room for the wires back to the esc, only weighs 70g against 100+ for a bigger motor and actually works very well, something I can say with confidence as I've been using mine like that for a few years now. Hope you find something suitable.

[ron evans]

John, your 28dia motor obviously works well for you, and a lighter motor is good too as the P2K does tend to be nose heavy.

My 1600 came with a 28 dia motor turning the 10x6 folder, but got too hot on 3 cells with poor performance.

I considered a longer 28 with a lower kv, but in my experience a bigger motor drawing the same current will usually be more effective, so I fitted a 35dia one.

Bigger motors will usually have a higher max Watt rating than a smaller one, and usually stay cooler, loosing less energy at the same current on the same prop.

Ron

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Geoff S

Never even knew those Gliderdrive motors existed. now looking round for something to fit it in, just so I have an excuse to buy one.

so:

T-H-A-N-K-S F-O-R T-H-A-T

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys' here's an oddity.

I have a 2000 v2 on order with Bangood which they seem reluctant to ship out. Casting round for an alternative I noticed that HK have them in stock at their UK warehouse.

They are actually cheaper than BG, which doesn't happen very often, but look at the text.

Under motor it says: 28 size 1050 brushless.

Eh?

Jeff

[ron evans]

Had a quick look at the reviews, and no complaints about lack of power. With the v1 HK uprated to a larger motor, hard to believe they'd go back to a smaller one.

One reviewer used a 4s 2200, giving unlimited vertical !!

May be a misprint. Grab one and find out

Ron

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Ron

That's what I was thinking, but there is a problem. Already waited 6 weeks for a refund from BG for some goods delivered damaged.

Seems to me BG are trying to hold on to my money for as long as possible. Given the refund I am due is only £9 or so, and I paid £120 for the 2000, wonder how long it will take.

Decisions, decisions

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Ron

Well, the die is cast. I have ordered the model from HK, Free shipping and 1-2 days transit time. Let's just hope I can get my refund back from BG without having to involve PayPal.

Wish me luck

Jeff

BTW, spoke to a product specialist at HK and he confirms it is a oem Volantex motor.

[Geoff S]

Posted by Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 23/07/2020 17:32:42:

Geoff S

Never even knew those Gliderdrive motors existed. now looking round for something to fit it in, just so I have an excuse to buy one.

so:

T-H-A-N-K-S F-O-R T-H-A-T

Jeff

You're welcome. According to my note book it draws only 22 amps from a 3S 2200 LiPo with a 12x6 prop. So there's more power available if a bigger prop is fitted as the quoted max is 34 amps.

The original Volentex motor failed and I replaced it with this. I didn't need to change anything to get the CoG right and still needed the 20 grams in the tail.

Geoff

[ron evans]

Good luck with BG Jeffrey

Ron

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Ron

Well, the die is cast. I have ordered the model from HK, Free shipping and 1-2 days transit time. Let's just hope I can get my refund back from BG without having to involve PayPal.

Wish me luck

Jeff

BTW, spoke to a product specialist at HK and he confirms it is a oem Volantex motor.

[Tosh McCaber]

Good evening all,

I've just got back to the ranch after a couple of days away. Many thanks for all the replies so far. I'm going to have to take a little time to digest them tonight, and I'll hopfully post again tomorrow!

[Tosh McCaber]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sifting through them. I would have liked to buy a Turnigy Aerodrive, but it seems to have been suspended by Hobbyking at present. I'm contacting several hobby outlets tomorrow to see what they have.

On further research, a problem comes out.

On skipping through (100s of pages! on another channel!)reviews of the Phoenix 2k V1, owners apparently have experienced overheating/ melting problems on the front plastic bulkhhead, due to the heat of the motor. This may have been on earlier versions?

It appears that they have resorted to plywood washers between the motor and the bulkhead, and between the external metal ring and the bulkhead.

Has anyone experienced this problem?

[David Hall 9]

My MK1 had a 3536 motor mounted, using the alloy mounting cross as a strengthener on the outside of the fus. The fus was simply moulded with the motor mount in fairly thin plastic. The vibrations of the motor fractured the plastic most of the way around the shape of the alloy motor mount.

I added a ply bulkhead which was fixed with hot weld glue. It has been fine for a season. Other owners that i know have had no problem at all.....

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

Seem to recall a while back Andrew Newton did a unboxing on one of the V1 versions, in which he expressed the opinion that the motor (1050, I believe) and the prop (10 x 6) were unsuitable for 3s, and he recommended 2s.
I have three Pheonix's in my fleet, soon to be 4, and I have never experienced overheating issues with any of them.
This includes my 2.4 mtr, which runs a 1050 motor on 3s, but with an 11 x 7 prop.
Granted that's an Aeronaut carbon, which is probably more efficient that the standard paddles, but even so?
Meanwhile an oddity:
Decided to have another look at the Gliderdrive motor Geoff linked to.
Clicked on the link and went to HK page which said this motor was only available at US or Global warehouses, and back ordered at both.
Eh, not how I recall.
Anyway, put the motor into Google search, and it took me back to the HK page, which now shows in stock at EU warehouse.
Anyway, now it seems that this motor can be got fairly quickly, wonder if it might be a good fit for you.
From the picture it looks like the motor is held in with 4 equally spaced bolts, as is the plastic motor mount on the Pheonix.
Assuming the bolt holes match, or can be 'adjusted' slightly, you could do away with the plastic mount altogether.
If you're still worried about overheating, unlikely I would have thought, you could cut a plywood ring to the size of the inside nose, then another on the outside followed by the supplied metal ring.
That would avoid any possibility of overheating, but also serve to strengthen the nose area.
I have ordered one of these motors, before HK change their minds again.

Now, what to put it in ???

Jeff