Phoenix 2000

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

BTW, Ron

Looks like your good luck wishes did some good.

Bangood have agreed to cancel my P2000 order, and issue a refund. Also finally got round to agreeing a refund for some damaged goods sent over 2 months ago.

Hope they're as good as their word.

Meanwhile my other P2000 from HK is in the hands of Parcelforce and should be with me tomorrow.

So far, so good

Jeff

[Geoff S]

The Gliderdrive motor I used in my Mk1 Phoenix 2K went straight in without any need to drill extra holes as I recall. The only difficulty is locating the holes but, as the outer case is fixed it's easy to manoeuvre the motor to get it in the rght orientation - it helps to use the longest bolts you have to get in place to screw shorter ones in.

Never had a problem with heat. In any case I'm well within the motor's current limit (22 amps v 34 amps max). However I treat it as a thermal glider and only use the motor to climb to altitude (200 metres according to the telemetry, if visibility allows) and then soar. I usually get bored and land long before I exhaust a 3S 2200 LiPo.

Geoff

[kc]

Regarding screwing the motor in - I found that the thread in the motor was the same as the standard threaded rods used for control surfaces to take a clevis ( M2 I think ) therefore 2 long threaded rods could be pushed throught the front and protruded inside the fuselage where they could be inserted into the motor and the motor then pulled to the front for the other two bolts to be fitted. Then the rods removed and the remaining bolts fitted instead. More difficult to describe than do !

[Tosh McCaber]

On reviewing the options that you have kindly offered for a lighter motor, I have a tricky question- how do I bolt the enclosed motor thrtough the front bulkhead??

The motor diagram shows it screwing onto the cruciform fixing mount, which has countersunk holes for the main motor mounting screws. It would presumably would be offered up to the rear of the front bulkhead. But I can't see how to push bolts through from the very limited space behind.

The original Volantex was in two sections, the rear being the main spinning motor, wth a separate front thick plastc extension, which had threaded holes for the machine screws to screw into

I've no doubt there's a way, but I'm new to electric motors! Does anyone have the solution?

Otherwise, I guess it's back to the Volantex.

 

Oops- just saw the answer to my question above- I gues that you throw away the cruciform fixing, and screw into the motor directly, as suggesrted by Geoff above?

The only problem with the Gliderdrive motor is that it appears to weigh a very heavy 142g, as opposed to say, the Tornado Thumper V3 2836/08 1120, which weighs 67g.  Or have I got the right Gliderdrive?  The one that came up was the Turnigy GliderDrive SK3 Competition Series - 3850 - 3.5 960kv

 

Thanks as always!

 

Edited By Tosh McCaber on 26/07/2020 17:14:49

Edited By Tosh McCaber on 26/07/2020 17:16:05

[Geoff S]

You just fit the motor with the part that screws to the cuniform mount (which you discard) screwed instead to the front bulkhead. It's a bit tricky to do but the method described by kc, is similar to the way I do it and it works (with patience). I assume the motor shaft with the extend through the bulkhead enough for you to attach the prop driver.

A picture of your motor might help but the method I descibe is common.

Geoff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

My Pheonix 1600 was obviously bought as a kit. Got a non standard motor and servos. Give me a few minutes, I'll pull the prop off and see how I fitted it.

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh, here you go.

Looks like the Volantex plastic mount has bolt holes at 16mm dia and 19mm dia, which will take a conventional motor.. So mount your chosen motor to the Volantex mount, then screw the mount into the fuz as normal.

As you can see from the pictures I used all four bolt holes.

Note the motor is a Aerodrive 28/36. Not marked what Kv it is but since HK only list 1050 in that case size, that would be a good bet.

Even though it's a small motor, goes like the proverbial off a shiny shovel, and no issues so far with overheating.

Cheers

Jeff

[Tosh McCaber]

Deleted

Edited By Tosh McCaber on 26/07/2020 18:41:14

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

Did actually say in my post, 28/36 Aerodrive.

The bolt hole spacing of two at 16mm and two at 19mm is actually quite common. Bear in mind these bolts are used to hold the motor to the Volantex mount.

The mount then screws into the bulkhead with 4 self tappers at 25mm spacing, so spread the load pretty well.

Where did you get the 25mm spacing for the Aerodrive?

That looks more like the Gliderdrive.

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Tosh

Have a look at this one. The cruciform mount fits on to the back with 4 bolts, but this is designed to fit to the bulkhead with the motor facing forwards.

The dimension drawing shows the cruciform bolts at 16mm and 19mm spacing. So, if you discard the cruciform, and use the bolts to hold the motor to the supplied Volantex mount, then the mount will screw in to the fuz as intended.

Bob's your fathers brother.

Jeff

[Tosh McCaber]

One for Geoff_ The problem with the Gliderdrive motor is that it appears to weigh a very heavy 142g,

Many Thanks to all! I'm hoping to get retailers' recommendations for their motors tomorrow, based on your suggestions.

[Tosh McCaber]

Should have said- thanks for your inputJeff!!

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh, you're very welcome.

Bear in mind that the Gliderdrive motor is a outrunner in a can, so effectively has two cases. That's why the extra weight.

Also, when you get your recommendations, check the shaft diameter.

The Volantex is 3.2mm which is quite thin for that size motor. Most I've looked at are 4mm. Means you might have to swap to a different spinner and blades.

That's something i would recommend anyway. The Volantex spinner is not that well balanced, and the blades are not the most efficient. An alloy spinner with Graupner or Aeronaut cam blades would be a better bet.

Jeff

[Tosh McCaber]

Thx for the heads up Jeff.

[PatMc]

IMO the 4-Max 2830 motor linked is a bit too weedy for a decent performance from this model. It only weighs 60g, it will have to run longer at lower power than a heavier motor in order to to gain the same altitude & will be prone to overheating.
I'm just finished putting together a Phoenix 1600 won at the club AGM raffle. It's unflown but based on experience from several other E-gliders one of the first things I did was to change the supplied 55g 1400kv motor for a 125g 920kv E-Max motor that had been used in a 6ft span own design.

I'm just about to go to bed but I'll post more info later together with some pics of how I installed the motors in a couple of models with similar type of plastic fuselages but tighter nose spaces than the Phoenix.

BTW does the Phoenix 2000 have a steel weight in a box attached to the battery tray ?

[ron evans]

Jeff, on your BG refund.

PatMc, my P2K had no weight box. in fact with the big volantex motor up front, the battery needs to be under the wing to get the cg right.

Same with the 1600 with a 3536.

Ron

[Geoff S]

I think by the time I acquired my Phoenix 2K the Volentex motor had been uprated by the manufacturers and was heavier than the original. I had to put 20 grams of stick-on weights under the tailplane to get the CoG right. Fitting the replacement Gliderdrive didn't affect the CoG so I assume it is a similar weight to the original though I didn't check.

There was certainly no added weight.

Geoff

[Tosh McCaber]

Just checked my Volantex for interest- 4mm dia shaft. Pat, in light of the discussions above re various options, how are you intending to mount your motor through the front bulkhead?  Look forward to see any more.  Which E-max specifically are you using?

Is your Phoenix new Pat? I've seen a video by one of the Australians, who did mount a chunk of metal up front, in lieu of a motor for slope soaring.

Jeff- you suggested using the front plastic fitting from the Volantex. My query re this is that the shaft may then be too short for screwing the prop collet onto? I haven't a clue as to how long the shaft is or needs to be!! Can shafts be purchased separately?

Ron, are you stil using the Volantex, or have you gone for an optional motor?

Edited By Tosh McCaber on 27/07/2020 10:48:40

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

Sorry, that was my error.

I measured the shaft on my 1.6, which has the Aerodrive fitted. Just pulled the prop of one that has the Volantex motor and it is indeed 4mm.

Still recommend you switch to a better quality spinner, but you don't need to.

Again from the model fitted with the Volantex motor, the shaft only protrudes some 10mm from the bulkhead. The motor I linked to has a shaft length of 15mm so I don't think you'll have an issue.

My P2000 V2 should arrive this afternoon so I can check all these physically.

Watch this space

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

BTW Tosh

Bear in mind the motor I linked you to in a previous thread was only to illustrate bolt hole spacing.

Might be with Pat on this one. My 1.6 flies very well on the Aerodrive 28/36, but the 2000 is a bigger model overall.

Might hold fire until he comes back with his 35mm install. Should only require a minor bit of surgery.

We'll see

Jeff

[ron evans]

Tosh, still have the volantex in the 2K, and still going strong, although I prefer the 1600 as it is more aerobatic. when fitted with the Blaze 1150kv motor which bolted to the nose without mods.

Ron

 

Edited By ron evans on 27/07/2020 11:40:03

[Shaun Walsh]

Just bought a Phoenix 2000 V2 from Hobbyking, arrived two days after order.

Looking at the supplied prop and spinner I think it could do with an upgrade. I have an Aeronaut 45mm coolnose spinner, just need to buy a yolk and blades.

Does anyone have current/ watts data for the standard motor/ prop setup running on a 3S battery?

Should I stick with 10x6 blades or can I go up to, say, an 11x6 without overloading the motor and ESC?

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Shaun

looks like everybody is buying P2000's. Soon be as common as muck!
Mine should arrive this afternoon.
Meanwhile I have a 2400 with the 850 motor running Volantex blades, and an ASW28 with the 1050 motor running 11 x 7 Aeronauts.
In the middle of something at the mo, give me a while and I'll put the meter on them.
Couple of other things.
If you're buying a new yolk, don't get too eggcited, lol .I think you mean yoke.
Also a 45mm spinner would be to big and would look ugly. Better of with a 38-40mm.

Jeff

Edited By Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 27/07/2020 14:30:03

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Shaun

Had to double check my post. Ideally the lower Kv should have the bigger prop.
Sometime I may have to swap them over.
Anyway, all I can say is both models fly well, and have shown no signs of overheating or stress.
So, to figures.
Both on freshly charged 3s 3000 pack.
P2400 33a
ASW 21.5a.
These are static figures and will unload in flight.

Hope this helps

Jeff

BTW, sometime I will have to put the 11 x 7 on the 850Kv motor. That 33a looks a little high to me.

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 27/07/2020 14:18:05:

Hi Shaun

looks like everybody is buying P2000's. Soon be as common as muck!
Mine should arrive this afternoon.
Meanwhile I have a 2400 with the 850 motor running Volantex blades, and an ASW28 with the 1050 motor running 11 x 7 Aeronauts.
In the middle of something at the mo, give me a while and I'll put the meter on them.
Couple of other things.
If you're buying a new yolk, don't get too eggcited, lol .I think you mean yoke.
Also a 45mm spinner would be to big and would look ugly. Better of with a 38-40mm.

Jeff

Edited By Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 27/07/2020 14:30:03

Hi Jeff,

The original spinner is 42mm and I have tried the 45mm on the fuselage and it looks ok to me as the original is a bit smaller than the fuselage diameter.

Just dug out my wattmeter and run it up on the standard prop, result was 28 amps and 280 watts. That looks a bit close to the wire for the EP-30 ESC although it should unload a bit in flight. Certainly won't be going up to 11"

Edited By Shaun Walsh on 27/07/2020 14:44:07