Phoenix 2000

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Shaun

What Kv motor do you have? Some are supplied with 850, and some 1050.

Looking at your figures I would think 1050, That's where I got 33a on the 11 x 7 prop.

This is above the limit for the Volantex esc, but all I can say is never had a problem with mine.

Also I tend to fly mine as a glider, so only use the motor in short bursts to gain height.

If you are in any doubt, switch the esc for a YEP 40a one from HK. I use these on planes, helicopters virtually anything. Never had one fail me yet.

Jeff

[EarlyBird]

Posted by Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 27/07/2020 14:18:05:

looks like everybody is buying P2000's. Soon be as common as muck!
Mine should arrive this afternoon.

Jeff

True here is mine out of the box and almost set up to fly.

Cheers

Steve

[ron evans]

"Soon be as common as muck"....Too true, but I would have sold my granny for one when I was a kid.

Float around on high, or throw it about like you were Steve McQueen in The Thomas Crown Affair. And cheap as chips as well!.

Ron

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by ron evans on 27/07/2020 17:27:51:

"Soon be as common as muck"....Too true, but I would have sold my granny for one when I was a kid.

Float around on high, or throw it about like you were Steve McQueen in The Thomas Crown Affair. And cheap as chips as well!.

Ron

Hobbyking have run out of stock now so I guess it has been popular.

[PatMc]

Posted by Tosh McCaber on 27/07/2020 10:46:16:

Just checked my Volantex for interest- 4mm dia shaft. Pat, in light of the discussions above re various options, how are you intending to mount your motor through the front bulkhead? Look forward to see any more. Which E-max specifically are you using?

Is your Phoenix new Pat? I've seen a video by one of the Australians, who did mount a chunk of metal up front, in lieu of a motor for slope soaring.

 

Tosh, my motor is an Emax 2815/09 but they're not available now (I bought it from Giant Cod many years ago) but are about the same dimensions as a Turnigy 3536. The shaft is machined to be reversed from that shown in the link if required. I also have the 1400kv version of this motor that's in an old Protech model in some of the pics below.

My Phoenix is new, as said, won at the club AGM raffle. It's an old version which I think has a different wing fixing method from the current.

The first photos show the 2 motors installed in a couple of battered old Protech fuselages that I acquired as part of a S/H job lot. They are made from the same plastic as the Phoenix & originally had brushed 600 can motors.

The first has a 1/4" x 42mm birch ply disc inside the nose with a 42mm epoxy board disc outside, the spinner is recessed so doesn't foul the screw heads.

 

The second has a ply disc inside with an epoxy disc outside then a 1/4" ply gap filler behind the spinner.

It's a bit agricultural but doesn't look too bad from a few yards back.

I basically did the same for the Phoenix after I'd discarded the plastic & metal bits had been used to fix the motor.

Just needs a gap filler disc & paint to tidy it up once it's had a flight or two.

BTW I cut the 42mm discs by using a cheap Aldi (or Lidl) 44mm hole saw.

Edited By PatMc on 28/07/2020 00:02:50

[Tosh McCaber]

Thanks very much for the info Pat! 

Have you any more details re the Turnigy 3536 that you mentioned?  I presume that, with the extra ply disc, the shaft is still long enough for the prop fixing collet- how much shaft does it need for fixing?

Any problems with overheating, which |I have heard from some other Phoenix guiders?

Edited By Tosh McCaber on 28/07/2020 07:22:12

Edited By Tosh McCaber on 28/07/2020 07:24:33

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Pat

Nice job, thanks for sharing.

Did you have any issues with the can rubbing on the motor wires?

Tosh

4-Max has a table of equivalents to other motors. They list the equivalent to the E-Max as this one.

Jeff

[Tosh McCaber]

The reason for starting me this thread was the problem of the plane being nose heavy. I just came across these two (sorry-poor quality- potographed from the computer screen) photos, showing elevator and rudder servos fixed into staggered holes underneath the elevator. I've looked at my fuselage, which certainly looks strong enough in that area.

Reduces any whip from the long leads, and would enablethe original motor to be installed?

I'm now torn between this, using the original Volantex, or going for the mounting complicationsof a lighter motor.

Anyone got any plusses or minuses for this solution?

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

Looks to me like you might have the V1 version. Does yours have screw on wings?

The one I have coming is the V2 which already has the servos fitted at the rear, along with plug in wings.

This might be Volantex's solution to the nose heavy situation.

Fitting servos at the rear is perfectly feasible. The problem comes with finding something thick enough for the servo screws to bit into.

I would imagine you could make up some plywood frames to go inside, but positioning might be an issue.

Needs some thought

Jeff

[Shaun Walsh]

Just finished assembling my Phoenix 2000 V2, hardest part was applying the stickers, they really do want to curl up and stick to themselves.

looked at the space for the battery and thought "that will take a 3S 2200" and it will, what it won't do is balance with that much weight in the nose, fortunately a 3S 1400 fitted right at the back of the battery tray balances correctly. However, as the motor draws 28 amps it means a max of 2 minutes full speed run time allowing for 30% capacity remaining. So 4x30 second climb to height runs per battery, less of an issue on a slope though.

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys

My P2000 arrived today. Driver had too much on board to get to me yesterday, no biggy.
Found a couple of things I expected, couple I didn't, and a surprise.
So, as expected.
Whatever else they do, Volantex have got the hang of packing models for transit. This is my fourth one, and no shipping damage on any of them..
Also, the festoon of wires in the fuz. They'll have to go, for ease of assembly if nothing else.
Not expected was I have the 1050 motor. Was rather hoping it would be the 850, to give me choice of props.
Also, those cheap and cheerful battery straps.So fiddly to use, they'll be going in the trash.
Ho Hum
Now the surprise.
Stuck a few stickers on, then did a trial assembly. I used a 2200 3s pack, pushed to the rear of the cockpit but still able to engage the rear two straps.
Put it on the balance machine and as expected it was nose heavy, but nowhere near as bad as I would have thought.
Did my usual trick of taping a plastic bag to the tail, and sliding coins into it until I got the balance right. All it took was four 5p coins, or 14g in real money.
Given this was with a 2200 pack, no worries about that little weight on the tail.
So that's the balance issue sorted, for me at least. Judging by experience, the marked c/g position is a little conservative anyway, so after flight testing that might need moving back a little for better glide performance.

So far, so good

Jeff

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Guys, now I have a quandary.

Pulled the motor from my new P2000, and put it on the scales.
Weighs 118g, ouch!
So, do I stick with the oem, which restricts me to 10 x 6 props,
Or one of the 4-max ones, which are lighter, at 94g.
This one same Kv as the Volantex one, so same prop, but 35a gives me more leeway.
Other than that looking at the lower Kv one here, with maybe a 12 x 6 or 7 prop.
Even the Gliderdrive I have coming from HK is in the mix now, with maybe a little more tail weight.

Decisions, decisions

Jeff

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 28/07/2020 22:42:30:

Hi Guys, now I have a quandary.

Pulled the motor from my new P2000, and put it on the scales.
Weighs 118g, ouch!
So, do I stick with the oem, which restricts me to 10 x 6 props,
Or one of the 4-max ones, which are lighter, at 94g.
This one same Kv as the Volantex one, so same prop, but 35a gives me more leeway.
Other than that looking at the lower Kv one here, with maybe a 12 x 6 or 7 prop.
Even the Gliderdrive I have coming from HK is in the mix now, with maybe a little more tail weight.

Decisions, decisions

Jeff

Hi Jeff

Both of the motors you link to weigh 99g, so a saving of just 19g, is it worth the trouble to save that much weight?

Also the high Kv motor has a max continuous rating of 30A and the lower Kv motor is 25A. Given that the original motor draws 28A that's not a big improvement in power output (assuming the same efficiency). You could send George at 4-Max an email for suggestions, I believe he has current draw and thrust figures for all his motor/prop combinations.

[Shaun Walsh]

Decided that I didn't like the Rudolph look with the red spinner and the plastic blade yoke so I fitted a spare 45mm Aero-Naut Coolnose spinner I had with some Cam-Carbon 10x6 blades.

Edited By Shaun Walsh on 29/07/2020 11:41:41

Edited By Shaun Walsh on 29/07/2020 11:43:23

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Shaun

Quite right, 19g here or there makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.
Reason I posted the weight is I've seen so many ideas for replacements on this thread, ranging from light 28 size all the way up to Gliderdrive at 142g.
Just to let people know if they fit a heavier motor it won't make the nose heaviness any worse.

Jeff

BTW take back what I said about the 45mm spinner. Looks pretty good.

[Tosh McCaber]

I like that combo, Shaun. Where did you buy it? And we've had so many motors discussed now, that I have to ask you what's your motor??

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Tosh McCaber on 29/07/2020 15:05:44:

I like that combo, Shaun. Where did you buy it? And we've had so many motors discussed now, that I have to ask you what's your motor??

Hi Tosh

I presume that you are talking about the prop/spinner?

It's an Aero-Naut Coolnose 45mm spinner with 47mm yoke and 10x6 CamCarbon prop blades.

These are available from:

Robotbirds

Glidersuk

Electric Wingman

I think that the spinner is currently out of stock and I had to shop around for the yoke and the blades.

The motor is the stock one B40/23 1050Kv

Edited By Shaun Walsh on 29/07/2020 15:52:48

Edited By Shaun Walsh on 29/07/2020 15:53:35

[Jeffrey Cottrell 2]

Hi Tosh

Looks like Stan at Pheonix Model Products can do the spinner. Might check with Shaun where he got the yoke.

Jeff

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 29/07/2020 16:56:04:

Hi Tosh

Looks like Stan at Pheonix Model Products can do the spinner. Might check with Shaun where he got the yoke.

Jeff

T9Hobbysport

[Shaun Walsh]

Don't forget to check the motor shaft diameter before ordering the sprinner.

[Tosh McCaber]

Thanks guys

[Shaun Walsh]

Flew the Phoenix for the first time this evening and it went very well.The only thing I would say is that even with a 3S 1400 battery as far back on the battery tray as possible it is still a bit nose heavy, it need a lot of up elevator trim to fly level, may need to add some weight in the tail.

[PatMc]

Posted by Jeffrey Cottrell 2 on 28/07/2020 07:50:55:

Hi Pat

Nice job, thanks for sharing.

Did you have any issues with the can rubbing on the motor wires?

Jeff

Hi Jeff, no problems, I have a plastic strap tensioned to hold the wires against the inside of the Protech fuselages. The Phoenix is so much more spacious that adhesive tape is all that's needed (I hope )

[PatMc]

Posted by Tosh McCaber on 28/07/2020 07:17:21:

Thanks very much for the info Pat!

Have you any more details re the Turnigy 3536 that you mentioned? I presume that, with the extra ply disc, the shaft is still long enough for the prop fixing collet- how much shaft does it need for fixing?

Any problems with overheating, which |I have heard from some other Phoenix guiders?

Hi Tosh, I only mentioned the Turnigy 3536 as a size comparison to the Emax as I think it's numbering reference is more commonly understood.

The prop collet/spinner assembly shown is a combination of spinner parts from one made for 3.18 mm dia shafts & a 5mm collet. The photo collage bellow should hopefully explain it.

I've had no motor overheating problems with any of my E-gliders but I rarely run the motors for longer than 25 - 30 seconds per launch, they're gliding the rest of the time including aerobatics.

[PatMc]

Posted by Shaun Walsh on 29/07/2020 15:45:34:

Posted by Tosh McCaber on 29/07/2020 15:05:44:

I like that combo, Shaun. Where did you buy it? And we've had so many motors discussed now, that I have to ask you what's your motor??

Hi Tosh

I presume that you are talking about the prop/spinner?

It's an Aero-Naut Coolnose 45mm spinner with 47mm yoke and 10x6 CamCarbon prop blades.

Hi Shaun, is the prop dia still 10" when fitted to the 47mm yoke ?