ARTF Scale or semi scale aerobatic biplane

[Charles Aldous 1]

I have a faithful OS 91 fs looking for a new airframe and I fancy a suitable, aerobatic biplane. This engine once flew a Great Planes Super Skybolt, 77" wingspan and a little under 8lbs, so something similar would suit. Any recommendations welcomed please.

[Richard Wills 2]

There is the Seagull Skybolt, it is a little heavier around 9 lbs I fly mine on a 120 fs but it has power in reserve.

Wots Wot artf I have a 91 fs in, great combination albeit a little overpowered but not extremely so.

[Martin McIntosh]

Have a look at the Aeromaster thread on here which may give you some ideas. Mine is the 52.5" super version, Laser 80 powered. You could always scale it up a little to maybe 60" but any more and it would be unlikely to be very aerobatic (assuming that you are not looking for ARTF).

[Charles Aldous 1]

Thanks Richard. Martin, it is artf I'm looking for.

[J D 8]

Seagull Christen Eagle, 54in.

[Jon Laughton]

Blackhorse Fairey Albacore perhaps for something different?

http://www.blackhorsemodel.com.vn/?product=fairey-albacore

[Charles Aldous 1]

Thanks for replies: I like the look of the Christen Eagle and research would favour the Hangar 9 version but discontinued, which leave the Seagul one which is reasonably well thought of. The other model I like the look of is the Seagull Bucker Jungmeister, 65" wingspan.

[Low pass Pete]

Posted by Charles Aldous 1 on 19/08/2020 10:33:24:

Thanks for replies: I like the look of the Christen Eagle and research would favour the Hangar 9 version but discontinued, which leave the Seagul one which is reasonably well thought of. The other model I like the look of is the Seagull Bucker Jungmeister, 65" wingspan.

I have both of these models.

Ref Jungmeister- Mine has a Laser 155. I would not recommend a smaller engine than this. It would struggle on a 91.

Ref Christan Eagle - Mine had an OS 120 and it flew very well on this, but I feel on a 91 it would be underpowered and climb rate would be poor. The Eagle is much like a Pitts so likes power. Not a model for a beginer.

Hope this helps

Peter

Edited By Low pass Pete on 19/08/2020 11:29:38

[Charles Aldous 1]

Posted by Low pass Pete on 19/08/2020 11:29:11:

Posted by Charles Aldous 1 on 19/08/2020 10:33:24:

Thanks for replies: I like the look of the Christen Eagle and research would favour the Hangar 9 version but discontinued, which leave the Seagul one which is reasonably well thought of. The other model I like the look of is the Seagull Bucker Jungmeister, 65" wingspan.

I have both of these models.

Ref Jungmeister- Mine has a Laser 155. I would not recommend a smaller engine than this. It would struggle on a 91.

Ref Christan Eagle - Mine had an OS 120 and it flew very well on this, but I feel on a 91 it would be underpowered and climb rate would be poor. The Eagle is much like a Pitts so likes power. Not a model for a beginer.

Hope this helps

Peter

Edited By Low pass Pete on 19/08/2020 11:29:38

Hi Pete and thanks for reply. I have an OS 120 in stock which I could use for a Christen, but would that be adequate for a Jungmeister (unsure of Laser 155 output)? I want to fly spirited aerobatics in due course and wonder which model is your favourite? I like the scale looks of the Jungmeister over the Christen.

 

 

Edited By Charles Aldous 1 on 19/08/2020 13:04:38

[Low pass Pete]

Hi Charles

If you want to fly sprited aeros then I would probably chose the Christen Eagle. The scale look of the Jungmeister is great but I have had some issues with both. The Eagle is the easier aircraft to fly. However Pitts type ac need care.

With the Christen powered with an OS 120 there is plenty of grunt I think I had to shorten the engine mount area a bit due to longer engine than the 91. No problem on that at all. As the airframe is short you have to be careful on take off due to torque swing. Also you need to keep speed up on landing. The aircraft is pretty agile and is probably more capable than I am! Looks good in the air. I also did not like the top wing attachment Seagull used and I made the upper wing one piece as I felt it would be more durable.

Ref the Jungmeister.

I have found that as it is scale-ish you have to invoke turns with the rudder. However once a turn is initiated she tends to drop the nose so release rudder and continue with ailerons. It is different on each direction which is why I have not used a mixer. Turns purely on ailerons are not pretty. A second club member here at Ramsey has the same issue. She is not my ideal Aerobatic machine

As the aircraft is quite bulky with a large radial cowl there is significant drag. I opted for the Laser as the 20cc Petrol Evo interfered with my radio. The airframe could possibly go better with a 180 Laser or a better petrol than I originally had. One down side is the Undercart is not sprung so care is required on landing to keep it smooth.

At the moment my Eagle has lost its 120 engine to a Seagull 80in Chipmunk in Canadian markings. Perfect combination and is a real sweetie to fly. A cracking model. 

This photo was taken at the 2019 RCM and E Fly in at Buckminster.  Added bonus No trim change when flaps deployed.

Edited By Low pass Pete on 19/08/2020 16:02:38

[Charles Aldous 1]

Thanks Pete. I am tempted by a Jungmeister BNIB on BMFA classifieds but concerned by your comments. How did you find yours say for rolls and loops etc? also, how big of an issue is the un-sprung u/c?

Thanks in advance

[Low pass Pete]

Hi Charles

Ref aeros with the Jungmeister. Rolls and loop seem ok but really do need sufficient power up front. I have not experienced too much of a problem with the UC but it is something to be aware of. I fly from a grass club strip and as the kit has mudguards but I have not used these and I upped the wheel size a tad which are softer than those supplied.

Also the fairings on the UC are just heat-shrink covered which I have found a pain so I eventually removed it and skinned it in 1/16 balsa and covered with some silver solartex. Much improved.

All in all the model looks great but would be unsuitable for a first biplane as you need to be aware of the way to fly her.

Rigging it at site is pretty easy as the left and right wings plug in and the upper and lower remain as one piece together with the rigging.

Hope that helps.

Peter

PS Just taken a look at the ad in BMFA site that you have seen.  The model is not exactly as mine as the colour scheme is different.  I suspect it was as supplied iby Seagull n the US.  The colours of mine was as the original  airframe was flown at the 1936 Olympics but I think the Romanium pilot subsequently exported the AC to the states.  I think it now hangs in the Ubehazi Museum at Washington where it is in the colours of the one advertised.  Probably more attractive to US Buyers.  

Edited By Low pass Pete on 23/08/2020 19:06:04

[Charles Aldous 1]

Thanks Peter, all good info. I think having read all the reviews I can find, I need to stick to the remit I set myself, which was to choose a model that is capable of decent aerobatics, few or no vices, easy to rig and using my OS 120, have plenty of power in reseve. Also something I won't be tempted to spend hours of angst about improving sclae looks! I love the Jungmeister look but it really is pretty similar in style to the GP Super stearman I have just agreed to sell. Christen Eagle or something similar fits that bill. There was a good spec one on BMFA a few weeks ago but that was before I was on the lookout.

Thanks again.

[Denis Watkins]

Am reading with interest as a decent biplane is my next target.

I hope I don't loose you on this Charles, but if you fall in the canal and are unable to swim, and see a passer by

Would you rather they had read the book and all the reviews about lifesaving

Or would you rather that they were someone who owned the subject fully and practically like Low Pass Pete.

Very interesting and informative thread

[Charles Aldous 1]

Posted by Denis Watkins on 24/08/2020 12:23:44:

Am reading with interest as a decent biplane is my next target.

I hope I don't loose you on this Charles, but if you fall in the canal and are unable to swim, and see a passer by

Would you rather they had read the book and all the reviews about lifesaving

Or would you rather that they were someone who owned the subject fully and practically like Low Pass Pete.

Very interesting and informative thread

Thanks Denis. I reckon I am now amongst the converted to whom you so eloquently preach. Hats off to the contributer's

[Low pass Pete]

Hi Charles

Not sure where u live but Inwoods Models at Huntingdon have had a second hand Christian Eagle hanging up for sometime. I am pretty certain it was a Hangar 9 version and it looked little used.

Cheers

LPP

[Frank Skilbeck]

Interesting comments on the Seagull Jungmeister, I've got the slightly small Complete A Pac one with an ASP91 up front, flies like it's on rails, and great for all the normal aerobatics (not 3D) and is a pussycat to land.