Weston UK Capiche 50cc Revisited

[Adrian Smith 1]

There is an extremely interesting build of this aircraft on this site where a petrol engine was fitted + canister plus a constructive explanation of how to fit cable driven elevators (and rudder) by Gary Manuel. See link.

https://forums.modelflying.co.uk/index.php?/topic/40435-weston-capiche-50cc-build/

 

Now I don't intend to replicate most of this build, rather I am going to electrify her as there are some very good performing 50-60cc electric motors + OPTO ESCs on the market that can be fitted. I can testify to this. The battery technology is up to the mark too. This is what I am going to cover here. Additionally, I notice the fuselage also has servo cutouts in the tail for both elevators and rudder. I am going to cover this method too rather than use the supplied wire pull/pull fittings for these flappy bits! I will have to see how the weight distribution is to see how viable this is. 

[Adrian Smith 1]

Parcel Force did its stuff and delivered the kit within 24 hours from Weston UK and for this size aircraft you can't argue with the price - it's a steal which at the moment includes shipping (£550). 

 

I have ordered some replacement single horns for the elevators to replace the double ones.

 

 

I have decided to use 2S lipos to power the RX and keep completely separate from the motor power source.

The 5 servos I am using are Macgregor which I have used before.

 

 

 

 

[Adrian Smith 1]

I am still deciding what motor and ESC combination to use, I will post here when that is clear.

Are we up to follow the challenge? I am. Hopefully watch this space. 

[Adrian Smith 1]

I had to get my thinking cap on today to resolve the problem with elevator linkages. There are indeed two cut out slots on each side of the fuselage in the tail and neither are in an ideal position.

 

 

 

 

 

The lower slot of the two is about the nearest in line, but to make the system viable I am going to need some 30mm - 40 mm alloy servo arms. This suggests a fairly long but rigid push rod to be safe. 

 

 

As can be seen the top slot is too high. The rudder with be via pull/pull cable as intended. I think the elevator geometry will be ok but I need to convince my self this will work efficiently.

 

 

 

[Adrian Smith 1]

Took the plunge and bought some Secraft 1 1/2 " (40 mm) servo arms for the elevators.  They are M3 threaded for coupler bolts which also looks like there is the option to drill out an additional hole. I think I  will use some turn buckle rods for the push rods as there are more substantial  than standard pushrods and unlikely to bend. Will have to loose assemble the tail plane again to measure what length I need. I may have some correct length turnbuckles at the workshop but I need to check that out this week. 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Adrian Smith 1

[Adrian Smith 1]

Back to the elevator issue. I lined up the elevator  horn with the hinge line.

 

 

By the way the hardwood platform on the elevators is just visible and it appears to be a good size.

 

 

Looking at the distance between the servo arm and horn connection I am going to need turnbuckles around 135-140mm in length.

 

 

I have seen one supplier of this length but the cost for 2 is eye watering!

The other alternative is to use 3mm push rods which I have in stock.

 

 

However the largest size push rod connectors I can find are 2 mm and not 3mm. I guess I could use 2 mm connectors and drill them out a shade.

 

 

More thought required and a bit more searching on the 'tnet to see what I can find.

[toto]

Great thread to watch 

[Adrian Smith 1]

Thanks Toto. I hope it helps solve assembly problems.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Lost me here Adrian, you putting ball links on both ends of the push rods ?

 

[Adrian Smith 1]

There are two options here, John. If I can source the right length turnbuckle rods the connection both ends will be threaded onto the couplers at each end (servo arm with a ball link). If not I will use some 3mm push rods that are threaded at one end to go into the elevator coupler with the unthreaded end that will be at the servo arm using push rod connectors as per the last photo. Hopefully that is a bit better explained. I know the photo quality is a bit dodgy and it is unclear what I meant. 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

May be me not understanding Adrian, why can you not thread other end of 3mm rod or fit a threaded coupler ?

 

[Adrian Smith 1]

Well yes I can if I can get the correct length of turnbuckle which is threaded both ends - these things are :-

 

https://www.hobbyplastic.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=184_284_334&products_id=11851&zenid=7369m5m4sj4cumiq129aqnh1i2

 

The 3mm standard threaded rods I have in my spares collection are only threaded one end hence the possibility of using push rod connectors. I could try and find some 3 mm threaded rods that are threaded both ends. However, these rods are not as robust as the turnbuckles (M3 threaded at both ends) which is my preferred option. I could of course solder a threaded coupler to the plain end of the standard rod but I am wary of soldering in such a high stress area. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Adrian Smith 1

[Adrian Smith 1]

Tell you what I'll do. They say a picture is worth a thousand words therefore I will take a couple of pictures Friday and post them of the alternative layouts on the work bench which I hope will clarify. If I am not explaining myself very well then I am not doing my job properly in illustrating how to solve the problem 😔 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Adrian Smith 1

[toto]

Some great help in understanding things and how to swap out different connections in favour of others. I am only new to this but one of my dislikes is " Z " bends, I thiink they look sloppy. I'd much rather have a more exact connection even if you have to take more time to set it up.

 

Great thread.

 

Toto

[Philip Lewis 3]

Kuza do various lengths of pushrod as do Seagate, alternatively you could use 3mm carbon rod and glue it in with cyno.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

16 minutes ago, Adrian Smith 1 said:

Tell you what I'll do. They say a picture is worth a thousand words therefore I will take a couple of pictures Friday and post them of the alternative layouts on the work bench which I hope will clarify. If I am not explaining myself very well then I am not doing my job properly in illustrating how to solve the problem 😔 

 

Didn't know what turnbuckles were Adrian, some here as well. https://www.rapidrcmodels.com/horn-hinge-clevis-push-rods-stop-links-67cf5nproducts35curpage-2-35-c.asp

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Adrian

 

I'm not sure I would describe £7.45 for a pair of 130 mm turnbuckles as eye watering balanced against the cost of the completed Capiche but each to his own.  I would also be slightly sceptical of using the pushrod connectors you show as I'd be worried about slippage of the rod under high control loads.

 

As it is, I ended up going for 3 mm Secraft turnbuckles for the ailerons and rudder on my Anthem.  

 

Toto -

 

I thought you might like to know that a very experienced aerobatic pilot, who regularly flies for the UK (not me btw!), uses Z bends at one end provided they are a tight fit.  I thought I'd try that out on the anthem.  For various reasons, I decided to go the turnbuckle route for ailerons and rudder but stuck with the supplied Z bend and threaded rod for the elevators.  As it happens, mechanical adjustment has been sufficient to require only 2 clicks of up elevator and zero sub trim.  The turnbuckles have the advantage of infinitely variable length which is ideal for removing those 2 clicks, or more, of trim by merely turning them to increase/decrease the distance between servo and control horn.

[GrumpyGnome]

Personally, I'm OK with 'z-bends'..... my least favourite connectors are any where a grub screw bears down on the push rod..........

 

Different strokes for different folks.

[Adrian Smith 1]

The ones I was looking at were these, Peter.

https://www.nexusmodels.co.uk/flightline-pro-linkage-rods-m3x140mm-2-hfl5308-5055366101958.htm

Ouch!

But I see from the helpful responses, yours included ,there are cheaper options out there. My ideal is 3mm turnbuckles of the right length threaded both ends.

Thanks Philip for your post I think that may be an option - I had forgotten Probuild.

Thanks John for your link.

 

 

 

[Adrian Smith 1]

To clarify my main preference is one:-

 

 

3 mm threaded turnbuckles with horns fitted with a ball link. obviously in the above photo the elevator horn screws directly to the turn buckle and I do away with the free horn that's shown.

 

Option two : -

 

 

Threaded 3 mm rod at one end with a rod connector at the servo end. Not my favourite way.

 

 

The least favourite way is 3

 

 

Soldering a couple to the blank end of the rod. Don't really like that way. 

 

As I say a turnbuckle of the right length thread at both ends with a  ball link on the horn at the servo end. 

 

 

 

 

[toto]

 

I am reasonably ok with soldering but do these materials take solder well ?

[Nick Cripps]

Sorry, Adrian, but the rod connectors you are showing in option 2 should not be anywhere near a 50cc model.

 

They are (just about) adequate for a small foamy but really not not suitable for anything bigger.

 

On such a large model, I would always go for ball-link connectors using either a turnbuckle rod with LH/RH threads (your option 1) or a conventional threaded rod with a threaded coupler for the ball-link soldered onto the other other end (your option 3). There is also the option of making up a carbon pushrods such as this.

[Adrian Smith 1]

Quite, Nick. Hence not a favoured option as mentioned. I really like the turnbuckle set up the best. 

 

 

[Adrian Smith 1]

At last managed to source the right length turnbuckles at 140mm M3 fitting. Most I identified were 135 mm which are too short. 

Work to start in earnest in the next few days after a week's holiday.

 

[Peter Jenkins]

Good find Adrian.  I have bookmarked them.