Newbie Help - Easy Pigeon

[Hoochykins]

Hi All,

About 25 years ago when I was 10 my dad bought me an Easy Pigeon glider with two channel radio gear, built it up and of course with me being 10 it lasted all of about 20 seconds before plummeting to the earth in a explosion of balsa wood and plastic.

About 5 years ago I bought another Easy Pigeon glider in the hope to fly it without crashing it instantly but it has lived in the loft since. I now think it's time to give it a second chance. I've always been into aircraft and have have a basic knowledge of how these things work but when it comes to actual knowing the specific parts I am currently clueless.

I would like to get this up and flying without breaking the bank, it it all goes well then I may get more into the hobby but for now I just want to get it flying.

With the new and old plane I have two fuselages with one set of wings, it has the standard 540 old brushed motor and two servos with an old school (no idea if this type of thing was actually used often) engine cutoff switch which is attached to the elevator servo. I know from reading a bit that these were slow old gliders which took an age to get any height so would be looking to replace all the internals. What would you guys recommend I go for?

I was looking at the Flysky 6 channel radio and receiver but other than that I don't know what to go for. I know I need to keep the weight similar or move the internals to keep it trimmed. I presume I should be looking at a brush less motor and Lipo batteries?

Here is what I am currently working with, no idea if the servos work still. What would you recommend?

[Geoff S]

First, ditch the elevator connected motor switch. They don't work well as I found with my first model (a Precedent Electrafly) which lasted about as long as your first Easy Pigeon and I wasn't 10 - more like 52 🙂

 

The brushed motor will be OK but get a suitable brushed speed controller capable of passing around 30 amps.  Use a 3S 2200 MaH LiPO for energy.  You will need a suitable 2.4gHz transmitter/receiver combination (a 4 channel system will be adequate but, if you want to go further, then get one with more channels. My experience is with Frsky but Radiomaster seem to be both cheap and popular - needs research).  I notice that the servos are Sanwa - at one time they had different polarity from anyone else, so check.  The positive connection must be in the centre pin of the 3 way plug - it's a bit fiddly but they can be changed over if they're wrong. A failure will burn out the servos. Of course, you could always swap the servos for new, but I guess these will not have had much use.

 

Make sure your motor runs the right way (anti-clockwise viewed from the front) - if it's the opposite, just swap the connectors over.  Get someone with experience look it over before you fly it.  The best way is to join a local club - or, at least, go over and see them.

[Andy Stephenson]

If you would like to start from scratch, I have a new in box Easy Pigeon kit available.

[Hoochykins]

16 minutes ago, Geoff S said:

First, ditch the elevator connected motor switch. They don't work well as I found with my first model (a Precedent Electrafly) which lasted about as long as your first Easy Pigeon and I wasn't 10 - more like 52 🙂

 

The brushed motor will be OK but get a suitable brushed speed controller capable of passing around 30 amps.  Use a 3S 2200 MaH LiPO for energy.  You will need a suitable 2.4gHz transmitter/receiver combination (a 4 channel system will be adequate but, if you want to go further, then get one with more channels. My experience is with Frsky but Radiomaster seem to be both cheap and popular - needs research).  I notice that the servos are Sanwa - at one time they had different polarity from anyone else, so check.  The positive connection must be in the centre pin of the 3 way plug - it's a bit fiddly but they can be changed over if they're wrong. A failure will burn out the servos. Of course, you could always swap the servos for new, but I guess these will not have had much use.

 

Make sure your motor runs the right way (anti-clockwise viewed from the front) - if it's the opposite, just swap the connectors over.  Get someone with experience look it over before you fly it.  The best way is to join a local club - or, at least, go over and see them.

 

I am more than happy to swap out the internals for new gear, I like fiddling with things so more than happy to make anything work, if need be I have a 3D printer so can make up brackets etc. I 100% want to lose that mechanical motor switch, I wasn't confident in it when I was 10 and now you can buy chinese gear for so cheap I would be silly to run that.

 

I will take a look at the Frsky and Radiomaster kit. 

 

I wouldn't mind swapping out the motor as it's 25 years old now, big, heavy and no doubt very inefficient with battery usage. If you guys could give me a list of gear I will need and some examples of bits that might fit I'll do some researching and get my knowledge up. 

 

No doubt this will end up in the ground but I will get some experience up with simulators so it lasts for more than 10 seconds.

[Hoochykins]

12 minutes ago, Andy Stephenson said:

If you would like to start from scratch, I have a new in box Easy Pigeon kit available.

 

Ah man they are still around 😀 . I have a new kit that I bought a few years ago so I have one full set currently but I'm thinking it won't last long so I might take that off your hands if you want to get rid of it!

 

I do have drone experience and have flown some small cheap RC planes from China so I'm hoping this will allow me to fly it for a bit.

[Hoochykins]

I say I am on a budget, I want to bring all the internals up to date so I'm not looking to spend loads but would spend a few hundred getting my transmitter gear sorted and a replacement motor, motor switch, battery, receiver and whatever else I need 👍

[J D 8]

   I did a "dark nights fix up" on an easy pigeon in 2020.  Most of the work was rebuilding a badly damaged and then badly repaired wing section. 

 Dumping the original power set up saved over a pound in weight!

 Brushless motor and controller from a wreaked Multiplex Shark gave plenty of power  [120watt] with original prop. 22OO 3s lipo sat behind the motor under the cockpit canopy, servos and rx under the wing. Flew well, another club member liked it so a trade was done.

 PS, had the same experience as Geoff S above with an Electrafly and that darned switch.

[Cuban8]

Ditto above post.

If I was you, I'd visit a local club if you have one, just say hello and that you have an old model that you could do getting  a bit of help and advice to get going and to see it flying. You could make it clear that you're not sure if the hobby is actually for you, you have virtually no flying experience but seeing the model set up and flown safely in someone else's hands would be a big encouragement to perhaps join and move on from there. Chances are that someone will give you a hand (most of us like a challenge) to get it going - it's not a very big task for an established flyer to fix up, but the risk of it all going horribly wrong even if you try your very best yourself is too high as you've discovered in the past. Unknown, unknowns and all that.

Good luck.

Edited February 19 by Cuban8

[Hoochykins]

I think I can get this built up and ready first, once I think it's good to go I will get in contact with some local flying clubs and see how it performs in the hands of a pro before I nose dive it into a hill.

 

@J D 8 I don't suppose you have the details on the motor you used? Would I be doing a basic swap installing a generic brushless motor? I can see the motor is attached with a metal plate and spindle that the prop attaches to with a bolt and a cover with an internal screw thread. I have no idea if this is a universal style of how propellers attach or something bespoke to this glider.

 

Ignore the dust, this is the old crashed plane from the loft so it's been hanging around for a while. I will be using the gear from the new model I have as I can see that cover screw is bent.

 

I take it I will need:

• Motor (brushless)
• Electronic motor on/off switch
• Tansmitter/receiver
• New servos
• Battery
• Some skill

Am I missing anything?

 

Should I be looking out for a certain type of transmitter? 2.4ghz etc

 

If I remove all this weight with new internals will I need to get some weights added? or if it's a lot lighter but I position the weight correctly and keep the correct centre of gravity?

[Robin Colbourne]

I've been flying off and on for 48 years and I'm now using a FlySky FS-i6 transmitter with the FS-ia6B receiver.  If you are using a separate battery pack for the receiver it tells you the voltage of that battery.  Whilst you could invest in more expensive and complex transmitter at this stage, there is no real need.
I've taught several people with Easy Pigeons over the years, and if you start by putting a rubber band around the propeller blades and just doing straight glides into wind over long grass.  Repeat over and over again, you will learn how to land it. Once you have mastered that, you can take the rubber band off and, if you have enough space do a littel bit of powered flight, still going straight and landing stright ahead.

Whilst the original brushed motor and controller are a bit antiquated, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  You may struggle to get an electronic speed controller that shuts off power to the motor at the right voltage.  There are some on AliExpress, although most are designed for surface vehicles with forward and reverse.

Beware, the Easy Pigeon fuselage tends to break between the back corner of the underwing hole and the air outlets below the rear wing dowel.

If you can find a club, an instructor will save you a lot of heartache in the long run.

Edited February 19 by Robin Colbourne

[Hoochykins]

12 minutes ago, Robin Colbourne said:

I've been flying off and on for 48 years and I'm now using a FlySky FS-i6 transmitter with the FS-ia6B receiver.  If you are using a separate battery pack for the receiver it tells you the voltage of that battery.  Whilst you could invest in more expensive and complex transmitter at this stage, there is no real need.
I've taught several people with Easy Pigeons over the years, and if you start by putting a rubber band around the propeller blades and just doing straight glides into wind over long grass.  Repeat over and over again, you will learn how to land it. Once you have mastered that, you can take the rubber band off and, if you have enough space do a littel bit of powered flight, still going straight and landing stright ahead.

Whilst the original brushed motor and controller are a bit antiquated, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  You may struggle to get an electronic speed controller that shuts off power to the motor at the right voltage.  There are some on AliExpress, although most are designed for surface vehicles with forward and reverse.

Beware, the Easy Pigeon fuselage tends to break between the back corner of the underwing hole and the air outlets below the rear wing dowel.

If you can find a club, an instructor will save you a lot of heartache in the long run.

 

No motor usage and long grass is an awesome idea, I will give that a good go before sending it off.

 

I was thinking of going for a brushless motor and kit so I can move it to another glider if this one does get damaged.

[kc]

A modern brushless speed controller will probably cost less than a brushed one nowadays.   Also a brushless ESC will power the Rx instead of needing to buy a separate Nicad/NiMH battery for the Rx.    So buying a new ESC and a brushless motor will cost less now and be useful in future.

Servos are much cheaper now than 25 years ago - actually cheaper!

 

[J D 8]

  Hi, as noted above motor/speed controler came from a crashed model.

Contact George at 4MAX electric fixed wing specialist, he can supply something suitable.

[Hoochykins]

I've taken apart the Easy Pigeon and it was just that, easy. I didn't realise how simple these things were.

 

I'm going to get a brushless motor (the same size roughly) a ESC, new servos, LiPo batteries, transmitter and receiver. Is there anything else I need to consider?

 

What brand of motors are recommended and will an ESC that's up to the job work or should I avoid Chinese rubbish?

 

EDIT: Oh, and I was thinking about sticking a new larger folding prop on also

Edited February 20 by Hoochykins

[Geoff S]

It's extremely difficult to avoid Chinese 'rubbish'.  Most of it works very well and is ubiquitous in the hobby. 

[kc]

You could use something like this motor & ESC however note the end the shaft comes out- and compare it to this type which could fit inside the fuselage ( ignore the prop adaptor and use one on the shaft )    Study these two and note the part that goes around and how they fit onto or in the model.  The 'cross' type motor mount can be used and some motors it goes on the back, some on the front with shaft protruding.   Measure your model and work out whether the mount could fit your model.  

Note motors go round either way just by reversing any 2 of the 3 wires.

[Hoochykins]

@Geoff S I guess it's dependent on what hobby it is, PC's are a no go but SIM racing gear there's some good stuff. I won't turn my nose up at Chinese parts for RC gear.

 

@kc Not sure how the shaft works on that first link, will need some more research, is there a specific name for this type of motor? The second motor looks like what I need, I'd just need to make sure it will fit inside. The glider should be around 2.5lbs apparently so a 200w - 250w brushless motor should do the job (apparently).

 

The output shaft on the standard motor is showing 3mm on the caliper so ideally I would just want something that mounts the same as standard with a 3mm output shaft so I can reuse the prop or increase the blade size a bit, this might be wrong and I may need to decrease the blade size because of the more powerful motor???

 

I also need to look into BEC's as I didn't know about these until today.

 

Here's the standard setup

[kc]

I don't know of a name except backplate motors - they vary.   Most of the 4Max motors have the shaft ' out the back' and come with a bolt on prop adaptor, while other makes shaft  comes out of the 'front' which saves sawing off the backwards protruding shaft in many models.    4Max Value Range is the exception in their range.   If the motor casing rotates in the fuselage it must not rub on the wires, so care must be taken to avoid this which could easily cause a short and a fire.

 

Prop adaptors must be exact size either 1/8 inch or 3mm - they are not the same!   Wrong size wont grip well.  

 

BEC is part of the ESC so you don't need a separate one ( although you could use one )   With just two servos you don.t need to worry but with 4 servos you would want an ESC with 5 amp BEC rating or use a separate BEC.  Don't confuse BEC rating with ESC amps for motor - an ESC might be 40 amps and also have 5 amp BEC.

 

[kc]

These motors  https://www.rclife.co.uk/Brushless-Motors/Brushless-Outrunner-Motors/Surpass-Hobby-C2826-1000kv-Brushless-Outrunner-Motor   might fit your existing prop.  What is the dia and pitch of your folding prop? 

[Hoochykins]

Yep, motor casing already acknowledged, if need be I will run the cables out and back in. If really needed I could 3D print an aerodynamic cover for the cables and fit one each side to make sure it's not dragging to one side - I don't know how much of a problem this would be in a RC glider?

 

Prop says Green 8x4.5 (no idea what this means yet as I was going to leave the prop research until I had sorted the rest.

[Hoochykins]

There was something else, I swear I did read it before on a forum about the COG point of the Easy Pigeon but I can't find it now.

 

The manual says "the centre of gravity position is 25% - 35% from the leading edge with the radio and battery installed"

 

Does that means the COG point should be 25% of the way back towards the rear of the glider from the leading edge of the wings (doesn't make sense) or 25% of the way back from the leading edge of the wings to the rear edge of the wings? (that would make more sense).

Edited February 20 by Hoochykins

[Hoochykins]

Ignore me, I now know what Wing Chord is and the COG is 25/35% back from the leading edge to the trailing edge 🙂

 

Always learning

[kc]

CG is always related to the chord of the wing and that means the average chord if the wing is tapered.   Seems a straight wing on your model.   Obviously very important to get CG right - ask those who know this model better for advice.

[Hoochykins]

Wouldn't it make my life easier to opt for an inrunner style motor than an outrunner as this would avoid me needing to worry about the outside of the motor shell spinning and causing issues with wiring?

[kc]

If you can get a motor that suits your existing prop it may seem handy but choose a suitable motor and if necessary change the prop.  It's the combination of Prop/ Motor Kv and Lipo volts that is important.  Change one of those throws everything out.   Motor Kv is the important thing (Kv = revs per volt )    

Folding props are often sold as just the blades the hubs is often separate cost.   They may not fit your old hub.   Obvioulsly a blade that doesn't fit properly might fly off and hurt someone so it's important!