James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Ace balsa guru Andy Whitehead (Angel Wing Designs) is getting along well with the Aria VTPR model. The new laser machine is working hard, and Andy is doing trial assemblies and tweaking for super-precision cuts. Here we see the cockpit canopy vacuum form mould, a rudder and the two tailplane halves with Andy's own design Madstab actuator - which really works well. Its coming soon! Cheers, Doc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) Details please! Is this a “micro” whatever that means? How about supplying us with some engineering data, size (wing area) being a major data point I’d like learn about. Do you have a link to the firm and/or product? Are you associated with the design team? Details please! Edited April 1 by Konrad Change (.) to a (?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 (edited) Andy has been busy trial building the Aria VTPR empennage, testing the cuts and parts, finish and fits as he always does. To elaborate, the outline shapes and the aerodynamics for this little whizzer came from me, and Andy, using his exceptional construction design and manufacturing skills is rapidly turning it into a really fantastic balsa model. We are both enjoying the cooperation immensely and I am happy to say that this is only one of several models that will be coming from AWD using this synergy. As you can see from the pics the tail fin and AMT come with a building and sanding jig as do all the alignment-critical parts of the model and I am sure that this represents a level of attention to detail hitherto unseen on a balsa model kit. Even an 'average' builder using the construction aids supplied can turn his build into an exhibition-level model. Here you can see the AWD Madstab assembly which is printed - like many other difficult to manage parts on this model. This is truly one of the best Madstab mechanisms that I have personally seen. More pictures and information here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/566286474295515 Andy is now laser cutting a rib set and the other parts for the wings, which will be next on the agenda - watch this space. Its fun to be playing with balsa again - its been a long time. Cheers, Doc. Edited April 15 by James Hammond - Aeroic forgot to mention the web address/typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Love the built up hollow core vertical fin! Makes a great space for the MAD stab push rod. From a finishing point of view are the fin rib tabs really needed. To my eye it looks like the indexing offered by the tail post sound be suficent. With a note to keep the rib centered over the cap. With out the tabs it would be easier for me to make a nice fin ready to be covered. (no hard points from the glue line making it difficult to sand the fin to a finish suitable for film covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I'm sure the model will be fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 (edited) 4 hours ago, Benny said: I'm sure the model will be fantastic. Thanks, Benny. I think a lot of people know of Andy Whitehead's prowess when it comes to building balsa models. Using modern manufacture methods and design, he's single-handedly taken these skills to a whole new level. Note that ALL of the critcal assemblies in this model are jig-built, and the jigs come with the Kits. Some more pictures of the Aria progress from yesterday's efforts at AWD. Watch this space! Doc. Edited April 15 by James Hammond - Aeroic Typos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 https://www.facebook.com/reel/1037446954939384/?s=group_other&__cft__[0]=AZX0xIWLHTpgICoWWRJgOXC_hR5fmADEoLM9-Z4dOvXHEHdBb1kPjk8TiPPG1f7YmXHlxczTgNJCgFjpNW24LRgo_-KzU0LAOGRrNufdsBfc1JtcPkI1UxilfsSHAFHIEFNKhzIzK64RzVOmaQDOHsmR18EJl_xn4Bv-N1jmTQ8kyFLZ_mO_gRcsrtYX9eBaSHA&__tn__=H-R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 Some pics of the Aria Trial assembly. EVERYTHING is jig built. Its coming aolng nicely. cheers, Doc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Wallage Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Full ailerons, or ailerons and flaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 15 hours ago, Rene Wallage said: Full ailerons, or ailerons and flaps? Hi Rene. I designed the Aria with ailerons/flaps, possible with ailerons only also possible is Wingeron. I'd go with Ailerons and flaps and make the flaps follow the ailerons full span for VTPR and use the flaps for landing. Cheers, Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Wallage Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 On 21/04/2025 at 01:56, James Hammond - Aeroic said: Hi Rene. I designed the Aria with ailerons/flaps, possible with ailerons only also possible is Wingeron. I'd go with Ailerons and flaps and make the flaps follow the ailerons full span for VTPR and use the flaps for landing. Cheers, Doc. I am SO tempted... My wife'll kill me though... I've got two kits being build (a Phase6 and a MiniQ), one kit waiting to be build (a Blink), and four models waiting repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 Better look out for "she who must be obeyed" Rene...😏 Cheers, Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chantler Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Fantastic, build, design, looks 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 5 hours ago, Mike Chantler said: Fantastic, build, design, looks 🙂 I'm only responsible for the design and looks. Balsa genius Andy Whitehead is the build guru. Thanks, Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 I love the 'house style'! 👍 How is the tailplane going to be driven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 AngelWings Madstab mechanism, Mike. Just flew for the first time yesterday. Reported to be good on all counts. Cheers, Doc. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Dell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 That is nice 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 (edited) Hammond, I see a lot of your Gremlin in the model. I hope this isn’t a precursor of things to come. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlin On the subject of technical concerns I’ve taken the liberty to identify the components to the Mad Stab. This looks like a typical pin and drive slot arrangement. This type of drive (pin in slot) is prone to rapid wear as the contact area is a very small line, almost point like. Has AWD come up with a clever way to adjust for this wear or do they have some unique way of adding high wear materials to the cam and pin? It is my experience with Mad Stabs, that wear is the killer in the designs. That and trying to get the requested 180° of motion. I like the dual arc approach to the motion problem. P.S. Who should we credit with this Mad Stab design, you, Andy Whitehead or somebody else? Edited May 5 by Konrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hammond - Aeroic Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 On 03/05/2025 at 15:08, Mike T said: I love the 'house style'! 👍 How is the tailplane going to be driven? Drive is just a plain old pushrod onto the madstab assembly, both of which are included in the kit, Mike. By the way, it has had its maiden voyage and seems to be going pretty well. It does everything a VTPR - What I will call "FREESTYLE" from now on, as I'm told "VTPR" seems a bit ott. There is a maiden flight video - not a very good one! - on the AWD builders group FB pages. Andy has made some tweaks to the kit to tighten everything up and hopefully it should be a part of the AWD lineup and available pretty soon. Two more of my outlines coming soon from AWD: "Foo Fighter" - Kinda PSS/Spitfire late mark-ish. And "Cadenza" a slope allrounder. Cheers, Doc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 I don’t know why AWD or the designer is being obtuse about this. There is nothing unique or proprietary about this drive mechanism as it is in the public domain. Well, what is shown. You may have seen these cams used in applications like wingarons. Only this time rather than cutting down the large rotational motion of the servo to move the wings a little. Here with the mad stab we see that the cam is set up to move the stab a lot for any given movement of the servo (push rod). This is a dual arc pin and slot design. Here is a simplified drawing (cartoon) of what is going on. We start with the stab centered with the distance between the cam axis and the stab drive pin being (X). To move the stab 60° in the drawing the drive pin moves towards the cam (plate) axis by distance (Z). At the same time the distance between the stab axis and the drive pin (Y) stays the same. The result is that there is a new distance between the cam axis and the stab drive pin (x). To allow the drive pin to move the distance (Z) the cam has a slot. As shown, a movement of 20° from the cam (plate) moves the Mad Stab 60°. The effect is that with a little input from the servo push rod on the cam we get a large output in the stab rotation. This is critical to avoid binding so common with direct linkage from the servo to the control horn when trying to reach + 90°. The down side is that servo resolution and power is degraded. along with accelerated wear on the drive pin from line contact with the slot. To address this I'd look into a sliding block often seen in the modified Scotch yoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 17 hours ago, James Hammond - Aeroic said: Drive is just a plain old pushrod onto the madstab assembly, both of which are included in the kit, Mike. By the way, it has had its maiden voyage and seems to be going pretty well. It does everything a VTPR - What I will call "FREESTYLE" from now on, as I'm told "VTPR" seems a bit gay. There is a maiden flight video - not a very good one! - on the AWD builders group FB pages. Andy has made some tweaks to the kit to tighten everything up and hopefully it should be a part of the AWD lineup and available pretty soon. Two more of my outlines coming soon from AWD: "Foo Fighter" - Kinda PSS/Spitfire late mark-ish. And "Cadenza" a slope allrounder. Cheers, Doc. This got you in trouble with your Aeroic Gremlin. The market place saw the Gremlin as a VTPR model (it looked much like one). Only to find that the mass was so high as to never being able to fly like a VTPR. You tried to counter this false market expectation with the term "FREESTYLE". So regardless of one's sexual orientation, is this AWD design aimed at being a VTPR design or not? Looking at the design I think you are correct in wanting to move away from the market's expectations of a VTPR model and focus on the other strong points of the design and flight profile. I know that once I learned that the Gremlin wasn't a VTPR ship I was able to enjoy the Gremlin for what it was, a small heavy Freestyle model. Edited May 6 by Konrad add ? mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 7 hours ago, Konrad said: I don’t know why AWD or the designer is being obtuse about this. Oh the irony. Why are you levelling an accusation of being obtuse at AWD? I'm beginning to understand why your lifespan on other forums has been to put it politely, chequered. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Obtuse as it to me doesn’t look like there has been much detail on the mechanics of the Mad Stab mechanics when the perspective customer asks for details. Did the designer address the question as to how the Mad Stab is driven? I didn’t think the answer was informative. Saying it was via a push rod into a magic box rang hollow. So I tried to raise the veil of mystique that the designer seems to be trying to cultivate. I thought identifying the parts would help. Along with a graphic representation of the action. If my interpretation is in error please offer a detailed explanation of the drive. To be clear I’m not trying to foster a feeling of euphoria about this or any other product. I’m looking to learn what this product offers that I may or may not find in other products. Both from the stand point of unique features but also limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Thread paused gents, be reoppened in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 Sorry about the delay in re opening gents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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