Futaba

[Tim Mackey]

Andy Watson - I dont see the meaning of the link in your post ? Please explain

[260 Flyer]

I think Andy is being ironic.

[Garry Pollard]

Andy

Im with Timbo on this one, cant see the meaning of the link

Garry

[Tim Mackey]

I did wonder that.... however either way it is not very helpful

IE: if the message is 

"here's what happens when you use cheaper stuff" thats simply not fair or accurate

and if it was meant to convey " this cheaper Spekky stuff is actually better" thats not fair either. The whole mines better than yours debate has raged since time began, in all areas of life. Its a free market, and some stuff is better than other, some stuff is cheaper than other, and some stuff is simply different. Its up to the consumer to decide what he/she buys, and the supplier will have to react on price point and service etc as he sees fit.

FlifghtPower batteries are an excellent example. Brand loyalty used to be very important in slightly earlier days, but with economies being as they are, and the huge choice now available.... less so. I use Spekky gear sure, and before that was JR fan - however I started off my proportional RC experience with Fuby, but twhen JR brought out an affordable computer set, I bought it. Using mainly PCM Rx menat I was locked into JR gear, and when 2.4Ghz arrived, Spektrum were simply the first and only company supplying stuff in the UK and as I wanted 2.4Ghz ASAP I bought the DX7.

I personally have no complaints AT ALL about the Spektrum system, and have never suffered a single problem of any note with any of it. However Futaba are an excellent brand, and make equally good RC eqipoment to JR / Spekky. As to VFM, then thats for the manufacturer to set.... and adjust as he sees fit. Remeber there is such a thing as "too cheap" retail revolves around something called KVIs ( Known Value Items ) and most consumers have a figure in their head of many commom everyday purchases.

However, go too cheap, and consumers will get scared, believing that quality has been sacrificed. Rolls Royce will NOT sell more cars if they drop the price to that of a Lada.

[Eddie Flux]

As I said earlier in this thread I use both, but am (or was ignorant of how they worked). After reading some of the threads on brown outs QC enabled ect perhaps Iv'e backed the wrong horse. The DX6i was bought because it was only £40 more as a combo than a 606 reciever. I think after looking at both system operations I will use the Futaba for my return to flying, and put the Spekky in my b--ts. Early coding problems aside it seems to be a slightly more secure system for airside use. I hope the price will fall but until then I'll be doing a lot of reciever swapping.

[andy watson]

If you read the thread he tried to save money using a cheap battery, and he believes this is what failed.

Simply pointing out that if you use cheaper systems then you compromise reliability to some degree.  A good system will only compromise reliability to a small degree, a poor system will compromise it to a greater degree.  I am fairly certain I saw some test results of using various systems in "noisy" situations.  I can't remember where, otherwise I would provide a link, but Futaba were best, with Spectrum close second.  The cheaper brands like Corona were significantly worse.

[Adam Lomax]

personally im on futaba's side ive got the ff9 and in the beginging i had problem with it (it would go in to failsfe) i spoke to somone at ripmax and they sen me a new one and told me to send the old one oce ive got the new one. there are several spetrum users in my club and thier tranmitters have gone back three or four times they apparently keep fixing them but they crased no end of models one guy even lost a jet which wiped out on the strip. personally i would spend the extra money on the rock silid radio system

 

[Tim Mackey]

"Spend money on a rock solid system" ...what like Spektrum you mean?

[Tim Mackey]

Come on chaps..... all this is getting a bit silly really - the thread heading is Futab 2.4G Rx prices !

Everyone knows that if you ask a hundred different people for an opinion of something you get a hundred different answers. All the mainstream, established manufacturers produce reliable and quality RC systems. In nearly every case of reported failure, operator error ( in the form of unsuitable equipment, poor installation, etc  ) was to blame. The subject is that of VFM or otherwise of Futaba Rx versus the competition. As I have re-iterated many times, despite being a Spekky user, I have no reason to knock the others. As for being in a club where " several people use spektrum and have sent their Tx back 3 or 4 times and they keep getting fixed, but still crash loads of models" then all I can say is I am glad I dont belong to that club as these people are obviously doing something wrong, and its not using Spektrum gear

I have never had a single issue with my Spekky stuff - ever - and must have flown over a thousand flights probably in the time I have used it, almost 3 years now - many many people bought Spektrum in our club, following the results they saw and experienced for themselves with my gear ( the first ever 2.4set in the district incidentally )  - including many people originally stating they had no interest in going 2.4Ghz - the vast majority are now on Spektrum, and to date, NO-ONE in our club has experienced any failures. Go figure as the yanks say.

Edited By Timbo - Moderator on 10/06/2009 22:26:57

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Timbo,

 

I agree with you that the thread should be concentrating on Futaba prices but of course, Spektrum, as the main competitor (and, I'm sorry for Futaba's sake, market leader in my experience) will be held up for comparison.

 

I've tried to stay away from the "Mine's better than Your's" arguments but I think it is fair to observe that Futaba does have a, at least in theory,  technically superior and marginally more robust system.  However, it is also fair to say that Spektrum is an excellent product with a very good reliability record and considerably lower selling price - the crux of the thread.

 

It would certainly be interesting to know more about the club that has had the bad experiences - do they operate in a high RF noise environment, have they proved problems to the returned transmitters, are they doing anything differently to other clubs -  but of course, this should be on a new thread. I can't say I have seen any evidence of unreliability amongst Spektrum users.

Edited By Martin Harris on 10/06/2009 22:44:55

[Tim Mackey]

Precisely Martin

edit: However I have certainly seen unreliabilty amongst Spektrum USERS

Edited By Timbo - Moderator on 10/06/2009 22:49:38

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Nice one!

[andy watson]

I think the "this system is best" aspect of the discussion is pretty much inevitable.  If I feel Futaba receivers are worth paying extra for then I must have a reason- and so I have to (try) explain why I feel this way.  Otherwise the discussion thread goes:

 

"I think Futaba is too expensive"

 

"I disagree"

 

"I don't"

 

etc etc etc

 

I know someone that has had difficulties with spectrum gear.  I don't know anyone that has had a problem with Futaba.  Non-scientific, I admit.  Look at the spectrum forum- 2 stickies: Brown outs & beware the AR500 rx.  No systematic issues on the Futaba forum.  Significant?  Maybe.

 

It is interesting that one of the people saying the receivers are too expensive is saying people have 10 models and expect radio gear in them all.  This doesn't stack up with the tales the old timers force us to listen to about how the whole club used to have 1 receiver between them!  .  Even if you think Futaba is too expensive relative to other brands, the whole hobby is much cheaper than it used to be.  Perhaps this is where the difference in perception comes in though- I have 2 planes.  It will take me another 6 months plus to finish my next one.  This means £10 between receivers isn't significant to me, but when it takes me that long to build I want guaranteed reliability. 

 

As I said earlier though, there is no need for the issue to be polarised- if you think Futaba are too expensive, just don't buy them.  I will stick with them for now.

[Delta Whiskey]

Sticking with the thread quite rightly too.......as I've said before on previous page, there is not much difference in the price, even if you look at the RRP Spektrum is roughly £10 or so cheaper on the RX prices, reducing it down to £7 or less if you shop around, so we all buy what we want / prefer!

 

Happy flying!

[Tim Mackey]

I have to take issue with the "2 stickies" for Spektrum and none for Futaba on two points.

1) Perhaps nobody using Futaba can be bothered to do the testing that I did on my Spektrum gear.

2) Neither thread illustrates a fault in the equipment - in fact the "brown out" thread proves the exact opposite really.  "Beware the AR500"  merely highlights the need to check that your Rx has the latest version of firmware which, when enabled, makes brown outs a complete non event, even without this excellent feature the Rx shows no sign of failure as such. Indeed, the QC feature is a free enhancement which was implemented mainly to assist those people failing to heed the installation instructions regarding the use of suitable power supply.

A quick trip down memory lane shows (IMO) a more significant "fault" in systems on Futaba with their zero coding issue which required a significant re-call as well as potential  "double model control" issues in use....something the slow QC issue did not do.

Furthermore, on the occasions that equipment has been returned to manufacturer for either upgrade or fault rectification work, I read very few if any complaints about the service from HH - I cant say the same for the Futaba re-call.

Anyway..I reckon this thread has all but run its course, and has of course sparked the "mines better than yours" chat - guilty as charged m'lord.

Both systems reperesent great leaps forward in our sport, and we should commend the companies and individuals involved in its development for bringing us such relaible equipment at what can only be described as excellent VFM prices compared to that of equipment a few years back.  I will add no more..

[Delta Whiskey]

Quite right too Timbo, this thread has lost it's track a bit, I was hoping to put it back on course with my posting above!  So my question remains really in "what is all the fuss about" given the small price difference I've found, albeit only looking at the 7channel RX's from both camps?

[Erfolg]

It may have been said before.

 

But all the main brands , are much of a muchness for reliability and build quality.

 

Futaba, do not seem to be great inovators, although we have had some. Those inovations we have seen are implemented well.

 

Most of us have bought Futaba, because they are the boring Ford of the radio world, worthy, dependable, value for money. The occaisonal venture into the New, the the jelly mould Sierra etc.

 

What they are not are cutting edge (as in inovators), high performance, or luxury. i essence they are no BMW, Ferrari, or Bently.

 

So when the prices approach those of the exclusive end of the market. You had better be something really special. If not, no amount of talking and pricing yourself up will in the long term convince the public.

 

As for the prices, from Tower Hobbies at todys conversion rate.

 

R617 @ £60

R603 @ £54

R604FF @ £29

R616FFM @ £36

 

The two very cheap Rxs are Park .

 

Now you will find far more expensive Rxs there, but I do not need 14 channels or 10 or 8. I did not try to find the cheapest site, I guess there will be some, at a few dollars less.

 

The HK sites are no longer seeming to carry Futaba, as they have done, the Speky is there, as is Corona and Assan, all in great numbers. However Radio Castle, sell

 

R617 @  £57

 

How much is the 617 in the UK?, remind me.

 

David, says , Ripmax do not need to explain there policy, quite right.,we have a choice if we do not like the price, and he is right

 

But we also have the right, not to buy, to go else where, or change brand. You ignore your customers at your peril.

 

Erfolg

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Run it's course Tim? No way, we haven't even started the good ol' mode 1/2 debate yet! 

 

Now if you ask me anyone who flies mode.....    

[Tim Mackey]

                  naughty mr administrator!

[Michael Hickman]

Hi Erfolg

 

Please excuse, but who/where are "Radio Castle"?

 

Mike

[Erfolg]

Just a thought

 

Does any one remeber being told " No one has been sacked for buying Big Blue, (IBM to the rest of us) they may be expensive, but you get what you pay for"

 

Remind me! who uses IBM Pcs today?

 

You can be to expensive, for a good quality product. Particularly when the challengers are as good and less expensive..

 

Futaba/ripmax need to look at all the competitors, and ask the question, how long will the customers keep buying our products, at these prices?

 

Customers need to ask, what do i actually need, are these other suppliers/manufactures, value for money, reliable enough.

 

The strange thing is i have had equipment failures with both expensive and cheap products, less so today than in the past. Dismissing the Futaba, unique code issue as trivial, is plainly wrong, it was a serious fault. . This problem will have gladdened the hearts of many a competitor, as they think "I can do better".

 

Erfolg

[Delta Whiskey]

This thread is being side tracked again !  Pricing has been discussed and it's found it not that much more expensive for Futaba RX's

 

...and yes Erfolg, I'm using an IBM right now!     If you look into the corporate world, IBM Laptops are everywhere!

[David Ashby - Moderator]

My fingers hovering over the 'lock thread' button but it's been a good debate so I'd hate to block off any new comments, Erfolg - you're repeating yourself now old chap - we hear you loud and clear 

[260 Flyer]

It’s no good stating that Futaba are only £5 - £10 dearer than Spektrum the fact remains that for 6ch users the difference is more like £30 - £35.
FYI IBM have not made Laptops for many years now, they are all badge engineered of Taiwanese origin! (at nearly twice the price as similar products from the same manufacturer!)

Edited By David Ashby - RCME moderator on 11/06/2009 14:57:11

[David Ashby - Moderator]

OK thanks all. Locked.