Orange Rx's and Failsafe

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

I have every sympathy with Rob.

 

Every time I order from HK, I see it as a gamble. Will my goods come? If not what would I do? Will they work? Will it be worth sending something back if it fails? What will customs do with it this time. 

 

I am really hoping that Robs prices are keen enough so I can source from him and avoid all the pitfalls above. That has to be worth some premium. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

And he's got all the hassle (or risk) associated with CE declarations and marking!

Edited By Martin Harris on 25/10/2010 19:02:58

[Tim Mackey]

Thanks for that info Rob - I wasn't being picky when I mentioned the description thing ( well maybe the spelling was a bit pedantic - but then ...I hate bad spelling - especially in a business context ).

I think you may well have been in trouble with Horizon Hobbies if you were to continue describing these clones as  "Orange rx Spektrum"  - with no further qualification of the products actual manufacturing origin IYSWIM.

As mentioned, this is something that HK have decided to do - doubtless for this reason.

 

With 25yrs+ as operations director for a national retailer, I understand a bit about profit margins and sales volumes etc...however, I still think your differentail with HK is too large, and whether retailers like it or not - WWW shopping is here to stay.

Frankly, I wouldn't even dream of starting a retail hobby shop in the UK these days, but the best of luck - sincerely.

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Chris Bott on 25/10/2010 18:54:07:

I have every sympathy with Rob.

 

Every time I order from HK, I see it as a gamble. Will my goods come? If not what would I do? Will they work? Will it be worth sending something back if it fails? What will customs do with it this time. 

 

I am really hoping that Robs prices are keen enough so I can source from him and avoid all the pitfalls above. That has to be worth some premium. 

 

 

I agree, it is worth something, and this is something that local businesses can offer.

 

In real life, I have had very little problems with ordering from overseas, except America, where I seem to have bad luck most times.

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Chris Bott on 25/10/2010 18:54:07:

I have every sympathy with Rob.

 

Every time I order from HK, I see it as a gamble. Will my goods come? If not what would I do? Will they work? Will it be worth sending something back if it fails? What will customs do with it this time. 

 

I am really hoping that Robs prices are keen enough so I can source from him and avoid all the pitfalls above. That has to be worth some premium. 

 

 

I agree entirely, and as I said, I would happily pay a small premium for that - but not 100%+

 AS for worries about buying form HK - of my 77 orders to date, only one had an error, and the missing item was replaced FOC on my next order, with a polite apology by email.

Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 25/10/2010 19:08:27

[Tony Smith 7]

The Frsky Futaba compatibles are showing in stock now with at least one UK supplier.   

 

Annoyingly Frsky's own system seems to be out of stock everywhere, and that's what I actually need.

[Erfolg]

Rob has made yet another sweeping statement.

 

Not all purchases via HK are under declared. It is sweeping erroneous statements of this type, get  HM customs interested, to the detriment of the honest. 

 

Only make statements you can back up.

 

I cannot see myself as a customer. There are are retailers such as GC, BRC, Robotbirds, who provide very good service, keen prices and to my knowledge do not say anything disengenerous about their competitors.

 

 

[Rob Thomson - Slopeside]

Hi All,

 

Can we draw a line under this.  I feel people are miss-interpreting what is actually being said.  Not an uncommon issue on forums / email correspondance.

 

To clarify a few points I have been pulled up on.

 

- Where I have made two  sweeping statements:

 

1.  Comparison to another supplier / not being a uk supplier
Our pricing was directly compared to another supplier saying something along the line of 'other uk companies are selling it at this price'. 

In terms of the shop in question; they themselves do not make a secret of being a shop front  and publise it quite clearly in the small print.

The point I was actually trying to make is that if you are comparing us to X popular shop, then quite simply they are not a UK shop, but rather a chinese shop with a UK shop front.  This of course means that you cant compare - as we are not like for like.

2.  Low customs duty.

This is not a sweeping statement, it is simply my experience of the HK  shop. By default they set there declare value as lower than the real value of the goods, then allow you to choose the amount you would like to declare. 

 

I personally do not care if they do this - in fact in truth it makes little difference to me.  I simply have used this as an analogy to why you cant make a direct comparison between the end costs as an 'business' vs an 'individual' buying from the same wholesaler.

 

I am sure if you look at our products on the site and do a general comparison you will discover that we have very keen prices.  In fact in many cases we are cheaper than other providers - but not all.  A very even spread.

 

I am all for competition and believe that it is in the interest of all - and do not takre undue distress with 'wholesalers' selling direct.  After all, it is a free market and we can all choose to shop where we want too.

 

I do however feel that overall the UK hobby shop industry is suffering greatly from pressure from the international market place and the general internet - and that it is up to all hobbyist to bear this in mind when purchasing.   It will of course be a sad day in the future if all the local shops where not supported and the only way to get your equipment was online.  In many ways, the local shops are the heart of the industry and really need to be supported by all.

 

I hope that all makes sense and is not miss-construed in any way. 

 

Warm Regards

 

Rob Thomson

 

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

Hi Rob, as you say, these sort of threads always attract "lively interest"

One problem which many people have is the availability of a "local model shop".

Many such premises have long since closed ( and many of those well before the WWW shopping boom of recent years ). I know I am not alone when I criticise certain retail outlets for poor stock control, poor service, and inflated pricing. There are of course numerous exceptions as shown in our dedicated section on retailers. I use several UK retailers for much of my requirements, but the days of actually "popping down to the model shop" - for me at least  - have long gone. Some shops provide excellent mail order, and very competitive prices. My experience in the retail sector proved time and time again that the customers two most important criteria when selecting a shop was

1) Location

2) Price

My nearest shop ( poorly stocked and even worse customer service ) is a 40 mile round trip, and my next nearest almost 100 miles. With motoring costs the way they are, its simply not worth it for me.... and I  for one thank god for the WWW.

As I said before, no harm intended, and I am sure we all wish you the best of success.

The thread has wandered somewhat off topic, so lets see if we can get back on track.

[Erfolg]

Rob

 

I feel I must remind you that selling any item within the EU which requires CE certification/mark is illegal.

 

I must also point out that second tier products normally are significantly lower in selling price than Tier 1. In your case with the Frsky  Rx, is very close to that of a similar specification Futaba 2.4  Rx, I suspect the majority will prefer the Futaba device. As has been very tactfully mentioned by others, your business model appears to need attention

 

Again, I take great exception to suggest that I would act in an illegal manner, or encourage others to do so. Considering the reaction of many contributors to this site to the legal status of imported devices for personal use, they are also law abiding. If you wish to act illegally, that is a matter for your conscience. But please do not suggest that i do. In this era of job reduction in MH Customs, they will only be to willing to accept, that their jobs need to be secured to combat illegal activities and even requesting extensions of their powers and further tightening of regulations. In my opinion your sweeping stance on this issue is similar to suggesting all NI claimants are frauds and equally irresponsible.

 

I am also certain that all of your competitors, who operate in this area of the market are not Chinese Fronts (what ever one of these is). They all achieve competitive pricing.  As has been mentioned, there business models work for them and their customers.

Edited By Erfolg on 26/10/2010 11:48:19

Edited By Erfolg on 26/10/2010 11:49:00

[Rob Thomson - Slopeside]

Posted by Erfolg on 26/10/2010 11:38:52:

Rob

 

I feel I must remind you that selling any item within the EU which requires CE certification/mark is illegal.

 

I must also point out that second tier products normally are significantly lower in selling price than Tier 1. In your case with the Frsky  Rx, is very close to that of a similar specification Futaba 2.4  Rx, I suspect the majority will prefer the Futaba device. As has been very tactfully mentioned by others, your business model appears to need attention

 

Again, I take great exception to suggest that I would act in an illegal manner, or encourage others to do so. Considering the reaction of many contributors to this site to the legal status of imported devices for personal use, they are also law abiding. If you wish to act illegally, that is a matter for your conscience. But please do not suggest that i do. In this era of job reduction in MH Customs, they will only be to willing to accept, that their jobs need to be secured to combat illegal activities and even requesting extensions of their powers and further tightening of regulations. In my opinion your sweeping stance on this issue is similar to suggesting all NI claimants are frauds and equally irresponsible.

 

Hello,

 

To address your points:

- I have not suggested that you are acting in an illegal manner.   I am sorry if you have read what I have written to be this - but it is certainly not my intention, and certainly not what I have said. 

 

- Regarding CE certification:

I am well aware of the law and as you may have already noted we have already in the forum and on our site clearly stated that these are in the process of being made compliant.  At this point, all looks to be in order - and following final confirmation we will then be open to sell them.  I would like to point out that listing them as an up and coming product is not actually selling them!  In addition if you actually tried to add the product to your basket you will note that it does not let you!

 

 - Business Model:

I have stated quite clearly in previous posts that the cost margins are extremely low.  On average products are sold online at a markup of 5-20%.    In many cases, if you look around on the net, you would be amazed that the number people are selling products (and knowing the wholesale cost as I do) they get an end profit after of less that 5% for the effort; this is particually true of ebay sellers.   But.. this is the nature of a highly competitive market place that benefits the consumer by offering a low end price.   Something that I am certain you are all in favour of.

 

Now, can  we please get this forum back on track? 

 

This is a forum on the Orange RX & Failsafe; something in which we kindly offered some advice on our research to date.  It is not a slinging match or session about costs. business models and personal gripes.

 

 

 

 

 

[kc]

Why would anybody buy one of these when it's much the same price as Futaba?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

As the author of the OP can I respectfully suggest that the original point has been addressed and that unless someone really does have something new to contribute on the original question of how these Rx's deal with failsafes we draw a line under this one!

 

BEB

[Tim Mackey]

Yup, I agree. We already have another forum section to discuss retailers and their practices good and bad etc.

I'll close this one off now.