James40 Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 This was a practice display flight for the Elmendorf Alaska airshow, as is quite obvious from the video, he gets it very wrong. C-17 Crash Watching the video, it looks like he's trying to snap roll her with just about full rudder, why you would do that is ???? Sad lessons to be learned from this accident, one being never ignore the stall warning! Edited By James40 on 27/12/2010 11:05:34Edited By James40 on 27/12/2010 11:07:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy harrold Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 an uneducated guess. he didn t try to roll it. the rudder deflection varies with airspeed. at slow airspeed more being available/ needed. and he was at slow speed having departed tactically. the display is probably flown with intermitent stick shaker, bank angle in any case. very sad, I lost friends in a similar crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Too tight, too slow, too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 He actually did it twice! In the first turn he lost an enormous amount of hieght, then he did the same again only more so! Very sad loss of course - but you've got to ask what was he thinking going into that second turn like that? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James40 Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 Stick shaker was most definately active with the stall prevention system but over ridden by aggressive inputs to the controls.Climb out to 850ft instead of 1500ftSlats retracted too early and in a right hand turn with full right rudder and stick pulled back, the stall warning activated but full right rudder was left in which increased the bank angle and he kept pulling on the stick through the stall ! The stall deepened and the aircraft departed controlled flight with a sink rate of 9000ft/min, 184kts and 63.6' angle of bank. The manual says: 1) apply forward stick. 2)apply maximum thrust .3)Large rudder inputs should be avoided Left aileron and rudder were applied 2 seconds before impact but roll rate was minimal due to the stall. A sad loss of 4 lives due to overconfidence and being overaggressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 but why James,with all the computers and fail safe devices,how can it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 I think James covered that at the beginning of his latest posting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Yes I understand Martin,but Im trying to understand how someone can have millions spending on them to become a compatent pilot how circumstances can arise for these suicidal actions to occur,or is it something we will never know or understand!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James40 Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 I think they call it "Human Factors" these days Stephen. Lots of little events all leading to one major event. I'm sure suicide wasn't the intention here, just a total mishandling of an aircraft and over confidence in ones ability. If you wish to read the full accident report here please do, it's long winded as you'd expect an accident report to be but it covers everything in depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 thanks James very sad . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Think Douglas Bader - part of the RAF display team so not short of skill and experience but ego overcame education and he pushed himself just a little too far to prove a point... ...but, without such people we'd still be debating whether or not to adopt the wheel! Of course, there are those who would still like us to. Edited By Martin Harris on 27/12/2010 15:02:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 As it has been said in the past, there are many old pilots, many bold pilots, but far fewer old, bold pilots..........a tragic waste of life, sadly. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 The incident and circumstances are horribly similar to the B52 crash at Fairchild AFB in 1991. It was well publicised at the time. Practising for an air show, outside aircraft operating limits, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Or what about Bullock barrel rolling the Invader at Biggin Hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowerman Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Always sad to see a crash due to the pilot pushing the limits to impress the public. When they take the rest of the crew out it makes me angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James40 Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 Simon,I was thinking exactly the same when I first saw the video clip, it's all too familar to the B-52 crash!I'm not sure if the B-52 was practicing for an airshow, I seem to recall it was the pilots last flight in a B-52 (quite literally) so he did a bit of a showboating display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 JamesIt was indeed a practise for an air display.The pilot was well known for his aggressive & outside limits flying to such an extent that he had received several verbal warnings and finally his squadron leader had prohibited him from display flying unless he was on board (he was) acting as co pilot " to protect the crew".One of the 2 other flight crew was Vice Wing Commander Col Wolff for whom this was to be his final military flight. The whole tragic incident and the circumstances surrounding it apparently are used as a flight safety case study in the USAF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 In that case I suggest a serious lack of supervisory skills on the part of the squadron leader. The pilot was obviously a menace to everyone and should have been grounded. To allow him to fly a display flight where his grandstanding tendancies would be given full rein was just asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James40 Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 I stand corrected Simon, I knew the pilot had a cavalier attitude but quite how you get a B-52 in that situation is beyond me, especially with the safety pilot watching his every move. B-52's aren't known for their aero capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Ireland Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 My understanding is the B-52 wasn't cleared for turns in excess for Rate Two. Once the pilot had got beyond that there was no way back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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