Panther Trainer Autogyro

[Allan Bennett]

Thank you Rich. I'll stop finding excuses, and finish the build!

[roc5047]

Hi,

Yes trevor,when I say "anticouple",is the sidethrust Is this necessary on the Panther?

Which value give to it?

Thank you for your answers

Cordially

Gaston

[Steve Jones 2]

Right Gang, here we go with the second Panther offering.

Colour scheme this time is black and Ferrari Red, as with the first - simple but quite striking in the air for me.

Some close ups of the details:

Balance at 18mm back from the front achieved with the servo eyelets in the base of the mast. After covering and assembly I hung up and to my horror major tail heavy, even with the 4 stroke engine. I mounted the battery in the tail but too much. Now its just behind the rear centre former and perfect with no added lead - phew !!

Pleased with the engine installation, quite neat with the wooden cowl and scallop in the side of the fuselage.....

Finally the 4oz tank installation under the magnet secured hatch, I mooved the switch to this location to keep thing tidy too

Fingers crossed for the maiden at the weekend, weather looking good - running out of excuses

Steve

[Trevor]

Veeery smart Steve! Did you find the build a lot quicker second time around? I've never yet built the same model twice and have often wondered if it would be a bit boring or whether that would be outweighed by the satisfaction of putting to good use all the hard-won experience from the first build.

Good luck with the maiden.

Trevor

[Steve Jones 2]

Cheers Trevor,

For me building the second time isn't boring as you mention the best bit is taking all the learning from the first build and applying it. We are all different and for me thats the challenge and exciting bit in a repeat build- putting you own views into it . Makes it even more satisfying. For sch a great hobby, we never stop learning.

Plan built models are over 90% of my growing fleet. What better to open the latest magazine, see an article and included plan plan and go .. Wow , I have gotta build that !!! I had been a little low on motivation until I opened the mag and saw the Panther....

It funny how the sport has changed with the influx of ready built, fantastic for those without the time or experience to tackle a plan build. Some seem intimidated.. My view , give it a go it's not as difficult as you might think and if you get stuck ... Ask for help.

So, now this is done, back to the RPGS double build !!!!

[Richard Harris]

Steve,

Very nicely finished Panther , I will bring along my camera Sunday

On another 'Panther' note, I will be testing a set of AJ blades on mine. I will add more info here when I get round to doing this, I hope they perform well as this will a nice addition to aid potential Panther builders.

Rich

[Richard Harris]

Steve,

Very nicely finished Panther , I will bring along my camera Sunday

On another 'Panther' note, I will be testing a set of AJ blades on mine. I will add more info here when I get round to doing this, I hope they perform well as this will a nice addition to aid potential Panther builders.

Rich

[Steve Jones 2]

What a great day and a successful Maiden - thanks Rich !!. Happy to report flies like the first but the sound of the 4 stroke really finishes things off.

Time to join her sister

[Paul Cox 2]

Absolutely superb Steve.

Must admit I've never carried out a second build, but I enjoyed the construction of the Panther so much...

Had my latest Panther outing on Saturday - weather was perfect for our 'challenging' patch at Chobham Common. It was quite successful although I fear that the CofG was too far back causing the trimming to be problematic. My landings are also in need of work as I'm treating it too much like a helicopter - must maintain ground speed. Anyhow, she lives to fly another day. Link to a little bit of video from the day if I manage to get the You tube bit right!

Regards to all,

Paul.

[Steve Jones 2]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the coments and yours looks good in the air. I'm no expert but th landing looked just like mine til the experienced auto flyers shouted..." more power...more power..."

Feels wrong to add power to land but as you say keeps the ground speed up a little and stops that main rotor disc truning into a drag killing burden... Enjoy your model and good luck

Steve

[Allan Bennett]

I maidened my Pink Panther yesterday -- just a few short hops, as recommended, while I get my brain attuned to how to fly it. I managed four separate hops, the last one of which I would actually classify as a "controlled flight" of about 15 yards.

A couple of questions though: In each of my hops the model was tending to turn left. I know about turning left if the head speed is not enough, but how do I tell if that's the reason or if it simply needs a couple of clicks of right trim? I think my head speed was enough, for it was quite willing to leave the ground, and I could hear the typical "thwack thwack" heli sound.

After my tests a fellow club member returned from the fly-in at Old Warden and reported that his Panther had been flown successfully with a set of blades borrowed from Richard Harris because the test pilot had judged his own blades to be too flexible. Comparing his blades with mine, they feel about the same, so how do I know if I have a problem there?

For my next attempts I'll be adding a bit of expo to the controls, for I felt I was over-controlling in both directions. I also need to stiffen my carbon undercarriage and put on bigger wheels to cope with our grass field.

[Trevor]

in my (limited) experience, the roll left due to inadequate head speed is very short lived - either the head then gets going or, more usually the model falls over. A tendency to turn left which lasts more than a second is more likely to be a trim issue of some sort.

[Big T]

Allan, it depends if it was rolling to the left or yawing to the left.. You say it was "turning" left so I would interpret that as a yaw. If you could control the turn by stick input then it is a trim issue. When a gyro goes left due to inadequate lift being generated by the blades, it is more of a "flop" to the left which is usually unrecoverable and if the pilot insists on hauling back on the stick and gunning it this usually results in a pile on the ground. My advice is 1) try the hops again and make sure you are not holding left rudder in on lift off to compensate for bad tracking due to tail wheel out of line or 1 of the spats binding. If you are then adjust your tail wheel etc. 2) If the rudder control is OK, then you could try reducing the left bias on the head by a few clicks and re hopping for as far as you can until it hops off straight. 3) check the motor alignment for left thrust.

A well trimmed normal weight panther will take off hands free. You will only know if the blades are an issue once it has flown. If you are local to my club in Bedfordshire you are welcome to bring it over and we can put "known" blades on it just like we did for your clubmate. (That was exactly what was done for me when I started in gyros)

Regards

Tim A

[Allan Bennett]

Thank you Trevor and Tim A.

My Panther didn't "fall over" to the left (or any direction), and it responded to back or forth stick, and climbed with more throttle, so sounds like it's simply a trim thing.

I had to play with the rudder a lot during the takeoff run due, I think, to my main undercarriage being far too springy, coupled with the poor state of the rugby pitch I was using, so I might have been holding left rudder as it lifted. I should have a stiffened undercarriage, and bigger wheels, by the end of the week.

Tim A, I've PM'd you.

[Richard Harris]

Paul,

The trick to landing, as with a fixed wing, is to control the descent with the throttle. The difference is a fixed wing does not produce as much drag and our rotor disc is like a big brake! We need to keep the energy in the blades, either using thrust or gravity.

Trust me, landing an autogyro at first can catch us all out from time to time and will need different throttle settings depending on conditions. The best way I have found, as with fixed wings, is to practice touch and goes.

Landings just become second nature with time and can be performed in a standard like, fixed 'wing fashion', a vertical descent with a flare out, zero roll out and even backwards with a breeze.

This, I believe, is why they are so versatile and addictive!

Rich

[Richard Harris]

I thought I would share this alternative way of covering blades, in fact, I think it is a far easier way of doing it/cheaper and quicker. You may find it interesting or you may not.

I have a set of AJ blades to test on my Panther, I took a few photos as I went along. The covering is sticky backed vinyl and there are all sorts of designs, but, I like the 3D carbon fibre effect. This can be obtained in many colours and looks a bit 'posh'. THIS is the same kind of stuff I use, it comes in handy for trimming and lettering to!

OK,

First up is to cut enough vinyl so as to wrap around the whole blade with over a good inch overhang, there are parallel lines on the peel off backing which are pretty handy when cutting with scissors.

Peel off the backing and lay the vinyl on a flat surface, the blade is then placed with its flat face at the bottom and its LE about 1/2" from the end. It is important to do it this way as the wrapping direction will end up with the final piece in the correct direct so as not to be pulled up by the on coming air flow as it rotates.

The flap at the LE is then pulled up and around keeping it flat to the wood by gently rubbing your thumbs up and down to remove any air bubbles.

The same is also done with the underside, pressing around the root of the blade so that its edges can be seen.

Because the edges can be clearly seen after pressing it the excess is cut away with a sharp knife.

Once cut out we can carry on pull the remainder of the vinyl tight over the TE and over the top of the blade still running our thumbs up and down to lay it evenly.

The over hang that is left is trimmed to about 1/2" and pulled round and stuck on the lower face of the blade. As with the bottom face the top excess left over at the root is trimmed away.

At the tip it is trimmed in the same manner, the bare balsa that is showing at each end is simply coloured in with a black permanent marker pen...simple!

To finish off I go around the joints with my covering iron set at a low temperature, you can get into all the grooves and any creases/bubbles will easily disappear.

Any off cuts can be used for balancing the blades in the usual way or letting etc

Have fun Panthering!

[Foamie Dave]

very nice Rich.

[ken anderson.]

nice finish there young rich..........well done....

ken Anderson ne..1..... Rich Harris fan club.

[Richard Harris]

Crumbs!, it was cold out there this afternoon! I test flew the AJ blades and can report that they fly the Panther really well. With no shims added to the blades I gave them a quick spin  and slowly applied power, within 20 meters it was in the air.

 

This is a video of the second flight, very short as my thumbs went numb! A big thanks goes out to AL for producing the blades which I have know doubt will assist other builders if they feel the need to buy some pre made jobbies.

 

 

Rich

Edited By Richard Harris on 24/11/2013 21:33:25

[Richard Harris]

Absolutely nothing to do with an autogyro but well worth mentioning was my friend Martins new engine he is making. He has Utilised 5 saito .30 heads assemblies and pistons and a 3 cylinder Saito crankshaft to create he own designed radial. It is not quite finished needing the exhausts and collector ring making but it is a work of art.

The reason for making it was he couldn't find a 25cc radial, clever chap!

Rich

[Richard Elliot]

Great engineering again from Martin, that would look great in a super sized Cranefly!

Edited By Richard Elliot on 25/11/2013 13:25:25

[Tom Wright 2]

Naa Rich that piece of superb engineering deserves a better looking home like a scaled up Panther or Cruiser.

Regards

Tom.

[BILL PETTIT]

All machainest seem to think way outside of the box ,and we all benifet from their forward thinking. Great job!!

[Gyrocopter]

Posted by Allan Bennett on 18/11/2013 19:53:31:

Thank you Trevor and Tim A.

My Panther didn't "fall over" to the left (or any direction), and it responded to back or forth stick, and climbed with more throttle, so sounds like it's simply a trim thing.

I had to play with the rudder a lot during the takeoff run due, I think, to my main undercarriage being far too springy, coupled with the poor state of the rugby pitch I was using, so I might have been holding left rudder as it lifted. I should have a stiffened undercarriage, and bigger wheels, by the end of the week.

Tim A, I've PM'd you.

Allan,

PM sent

Chas

[Robert Foreman]

My Panther is at last ready for its maiden. I've decided to leave the cowl, canopy, and spats till later just in case it does not fly. Mine weighs 4lbs and it's got a Super Tigre S29 2-stroke up front. I made the rotor head as per Rich's diagram but used the Mini-Titan helicopter main shaft that I mentioned in my post months ago. The under-carriage and tail are also from the scrap box. It balances with a nose down attitude when held by the head. Tank, receiver battery, and Rx are all in the front compartment. The rudder servo is at the back. All of the red and silver is Solarlac over Poly-C over tissue.

I put the Panther outside in the wind today and the rotor blades started to turn .