Panther Trainer Autogyro

[Richard Harris]

Hi David,

Glad to hear your getting the hang of your Atom, roll to the left is typical of any fixed winged pilot new to autogyros (which most are).

I do it now, the blades are almost at full rpm but you haven't quite got enough runway left so add a touch more power or pull back on the rotors, then its all over. Best thing to do is abort and go again.

Regarding the doubling up of your plate I would be quite confident in advising not to try it as it will cause a pitch up for sure.

As for Paxolin I have never tried it, if its anything a stiff and brittle as Tufnol I would say steer clear of it and go with what has been tried and tested.

1.6mm FG is plentiful fortunately, look forward to hearing how your Panther progresses?

Rich

[Richard Franks]

Thanks for the info Richard .A very successful flying day with the Burky fitted with lighter blades and a thinner rotor plate (0.7)mm. Its interesting to note the much thicker rotor plate for the El Bandito (1.5mm specified on the plan) but I will see how it goes.I will publish some build pictures as it progresses.

Regards Richard Franks

[David Oatham]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your reply and advice. As suggested I removed the second layer of the rotor plate on my 'Atom' and ventured back to the field on Thursday. Once the nasty weather conditions (strong wind and rain ) had subsided, I summoned up the courage to have another attempt an not going home with a model to repair. As suggested I allowed the rotor to spin up to a nice speed and gently gained forward motion at walking pace. At this point it was soooo tempting to pull back on the stick, but forced myself not to as per your advice. Then .......success! Lift off

The model was a bit lively and it wasn't a pretty sight, initially frantically fighting the blustery wind, but never-the-less successful .... Phew. Once the nerves had settled, 2 more successful flights were made, so at that point I went home well pleased, and more importantly with an intact model.

Regarding the 'Panther', most of the build is now complete and I'm currently working on the rotor blades. I've attached a couple of photos of the 'unclad' model.

Dave

[Trevor]

Ooh, it’s a long time since I saw an MEC gearbox!

[David Oatham]

Hi Trevor' I'm not sure what an MEC gearbox is, I bought it from a guy via the BMFA classified ads

I just love the colour scheme of your Panther, would you object to me doing something very similar?

Dave

[Trevor]

It was the Rolls Royce of gearboxes back in the days of brushed motors, with the advantage that, by changing the drive pinion, you could fine tune the gear ratio to the propeller you were using. This fine tuning was much more critical to successful flight in those days. See here for a couple of examples of them in use.

**LINK**

I seem to recall the colour scheme of my Panther was based on someone else’s so by all means use/copy/amend it as you wish.

Trevor

[Richard Harris]

David,

Good to hear you have had success with your Atom, your a braver man than me going out in blustery conditions to trim a model.

Your Panther is coming along , top notch job by the way

The yellow and blue scheme was originally done by one of the beta nuts Ian Smith, he is still flying his model and is developing his own designed 3D printed blades which are very clever in their design.

This is the his Panther:

Rich

[David Oatham]

Hi Richard, covering almost complete now and loosely based on Ian's and Trevor's schemes. It has gone very well and is looking the cats whiskers , however I'm a bit concerned about the weight-gain of the blades once covered. I decided to use the sticky-backed plastic method mentioned somewhere in a forum by yourself. The blades weighed 51 gm each prior to covering. I've only covered one at present, and it now weighs 64 gm . Does that seem too heavy? If so, what would be an average ideal weight of a blade 55 x 7 cm?

I'll post some photos when it's finally assembled

Dave

[Richard Harris]

Hi Dave,

Your blade weight at 64g will be fine , in fact, your more likely to have issues with lighter blades than heavier ones as they are more sensitive in roll.

The only real issue I have had with weighty blades are they can be almost impossible to spin up and tend to droop ever closer to the fuselage top/fin.

Its worth noting that when the blades are covered the overlap of the covering is 'down wind', a simple sketch I made explains it easier:

Look forward to seeing you completed Panther

Rich

[David Oatham]

Thanks Rich, that is really encouraging

I have applied the covering exactly as you suggested.

I now have to decide whether to fit the OS 40FS that I have sitting ready, or whether to raid another model of mine containing an OS 52FS. In your experience, do you think the OS 40FS would be powerful enough?

The estimated all-up weight seems to be about 4.5lb without fuel.

Dave

[Steve Jones 2]

Dave,

 

100% the 52 4st.. I have the ASP one in my second Panther....

4oz tank is all I could get in and flight times are ok but not long. Power is plenty so half power is a great cruise...

Sounds great compared to the 2str engine in my first.

I have seen a couple with 40 4str.. they fly Ok if the engine is on song.... but not much in hand...

Good luck

Steve

Edited By Steve Jones 2 on 07/07/2020 17:11:28

[Richard Harris]

Posted by David Oatham on 07/07/2020 17:00:52:

 

I now have to decide whether to fit the OS 40FS that I have sitting ready, or whether to raid another model of mine containing an OS 52FS. In your experience, do you think the OS 40FS would be powerful enough?

 

 

Hi Dave,

Easy one to answer, go with the OS52FS, one of my friends has an early non Surpass 40 in his and it does fly  well. But, it has to be running at its peak RPM, if not it does struggle around the sky and he is the best autogyro pilot I know.

There are a few of the boys who have the OS 52's fitted and have plenty of power on tap, I'm sure the 48 would work well too.

 

Rich

Edited By Richard Harris on 07/07/2020 17:12:44

Edited By Richard Harris on 07/07/2020 17:23:41

[Richard Harris]

Steve beat me to it with the same answer!

[David Oatham]

Thanks guys, that's my mind made up on that score

[David Oatham]

Thanks Steve / Rich,

Well it wasn't quite as straight forward as I thought replacing my OS40 FS with the 52, it almost fitted!! Some mods to the cowl were required but all good now. I'm almost t of excuses for flying my Panther, but I'm soooo glad I re-read parts of the forum regarding balancing. I had made the classic mistake of carefully balancing the model without the rotor blades fitted. Having re-checked the CG with the rotor fitted, she now is a bit tail heavy, which is annoying as I had to add some lead under the covering below the tail to balance her previously

Oh well, out with the scalpel later to remove the deadweight.

I've also decided that maybe I need to make more dust to produce a canopy .... Phew, 2 more reasons to delay 'Lift-off'

[David Oatham]

[Richard Harris]

David,

That is absolutely fantastic, you have got to be pleased with your efforts? looking forward to hearing how the trimming hops go

On another (still autogyro related) note, I've just maidened this Weir W2, built maybe 10 years ago by Dave Muir to around 1/5 scale. I have had to do a bit of reworking to it as it got damaged in storage, fitted a pilot and threw on a set of Revolver II blades before I make a fresh set.

I'm pleased with the way it performs apart from roll seems a little sluggish going from a bank right to left, will need to upgrade these servos before heading out again.

The original W2 resides in the National Museum of flight up in Edinburgh. It had two tailplanes, the one it has on it now and another version it flew with. Its engine was a home made twin made by Weir, Dave has replicated really well.

Rich

[Andy J]

Having read this thread and purchased a plan about to start construction of yet another Panther.

See lots of pictures of nice looking gear boxes for the head which have long since gone out of manufacture. So what do you recommend I use as this could be an issue as I don't have access to a lathe.

[Michael Pirie]

Try Coolwind models, www.coolwind.co.uk

[Andy J]

Did try that site but nil stock of anything suitable.

[David P Williams]

Andy - at the top of this page click on the first Article -

Panther Autogyro

info for builders of RCM&E's March 2013 free plan

Then click for the Head Assembly plan. Rich did a design for a built up wooden head - you just need to buy a couple of bearings and a length of silver steel.

Edited By David P Williams on 14/08/2020 16:09:40

[BILL PETTIT]

https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?I=GPMG0510&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqrCz6_qa6wIVB2yGCh3KvwmAEAQYDiABEgJlX_D_BwE

this on the other side of the pond , but it gives you an idea of what to look for over yonder.....

Bill

[Andy J]

Thanks Bill, now found an identical product in the UK but at a silly price, so looks like I will be going down the route of using Richards wooden design as suggested by Dave.

[Big T]

Posted by Andy Joyce on 14/08/2020 16:45:55:

Thanks Bill, now found an identical product in the UK but at a silly price, so looks like I will be going down the route of using Richards wooden design as suggested by Dave.

Its possible to use a variety of methods to provide a spindle. Any of the old production reduction gears used back in the days before brushless motors for example. I have even used the front crankcase of an Enya 2 stroke motor. Wanted ads on RC Groups are another source.

[Andy J]

Will keep looking then, long way to go before I have to commit to a head design.