Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Hi, here a thread were we can chat about the voting, campaign for the model of your choice or ask for further details on any of the nominated models. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Mini Tyro has a lot going for it. Free plan, cheap to build and power. Could well widen the appeal of this project beyond just the current thread participants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 The Kwik Fli 3 has been mentioned a few times and now that the dimensioned drawings aare available to download ( see previous section ) it can be built without buying a plan from USA. It's a classic aerobatic design which has an excellent pedigree..For me it's a little too large at 60 inch span for a .60 and the 2/3 scaled down version - Flea Fli- is a little too small at 40 inch for .19 to .25. So as the dimensions are shown its easy to draw it again at 3/4 scale for 48 inch span which would suit, say, a .32 glow or electric perhaps 300 to 400 watt. A classic shape with simple bubble canopy ......anybody else interested in a 48 inch version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 I thought it might be useful to voters to provide at least some basic links to information on each of the nominations. Remember though, in most cases the link/s below are only a sample - many of these models come in different versions and sizes. So you do need to do a bit of research yourself. If you think a model is too big for example - its very likely that a smaller version of the plan/kit exists, so look around. Remember that the single nomination for each model includes all the variants - so if you like a model but fancy a smaller version - that's no problem, just vote for the basic version. Matador - this is available as a Ben Buckle kit, see here for full details. Elf Bipe - also a Ben Buckle kit and here is the information. Astro Hog - Many variants. There is a SIG kit - see here for example. There is the original plan in the XList see here. There is also a smaller 40-sized version of the plan in the XList, see here for that. Galahad - can be purchased as a Ben Buckle kit - see here for example. Gamine - this was a recent free plan with the mag - Sept 2011 - but if you want to see a picture or if you missed that edition you can purchase the plan here Super 60 - this is available from Ben Buckle kits - details here This model has many variants in different sizes. Plans are also avaialble if you don't want to buy a kit. Kwik Fli - this is also available in many variants, a notable smaller one being the Flea Fli. You can get the original Kwik Fli plan here. There are also many sources of copies and redraws - but I can't vouch for how "legit" these are. (That applies for many of the other models as well!) Mini Tyro - this will be out as a free plan in the mag next month I understand. OK, there we go - that covers all 8 nominated models. I hope that summary is useful in helping you decide which way to vote! BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 08/10/2011 16:17:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Kwik Fli at 48 inch span its actually 4/5 scale (80 percent ) and 422 sq inch Maybe 85 percent is even better at 51 inch span and 476 sq inch. Chord would be 9.35 inch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddock, VC Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I've ordered up the x list astro hog plan, doesn't matter if a different model is chosen that's my winter's build sorted as I have a stack of 3/32" 1/4 grain balsa that'll sort the ribs out whether or not they need 3/32"! I have missed the one I stuffed over 5 years ago and always meant to build another as it is a really super flier and looks especially handsome with a red and white sunburst scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I think there will eventually be 3 groups: Own choice Forum Choice and Astro Hog... Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanN Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Further to BEB's info above, nb that plans for the Matador, Elf Bipe (3 sizes) and Galahad (aswell as the Super 60) are also available very reasonably priced from Ben Buckle, for those who have a bit of wood in the shed or would otherwise be put off by shelling out for a kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carpenter Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Agree Ian, as a first-time builder the mini tyro caught my attention. I'm going to trust David here that it's an easy build. It certainly looks very nice in the pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Just to be clear - everyone who intends to take part should vote - it doesn't matter if you haven't been involved in the discussion so far - just the opposite in fact, you're the ones we particularly want to hear from! Basically we'd love to have a vote from everyone who chose this option in the poll. That way we'll end up with the most popular model and so with the greatest number of people taking part. BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:58:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Hi Guys, some folks are just voting for one model. Now don't get me wrong, that's quite within the rules, but ask yourself is it really within the spirit of this? If you're totally set on just one model and nothing else will do, then you have the "free choice of model" thread there just for you! And that's great. But here we are trying to reach a common consensus so I think we really do need a bit more of an open approach. I'm just a bit concerned that if lots of us just vote for one model, that we will build anyway under the other thread, we will distort the chioce here a bit. Also, bear in mind in the round two voting here (when we have eliminated the bottom four) you will have a chance then to express a definite preference for one particular model. So, I think it would good if at this stage we could look at this round of voting as being "what 4 models would I be prepared to see on the ultimate shortlist" Thanks BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:55:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I thought we should be voting for the model ( s ) we would actually build? As there was only 1 I would actually build I voted just for that. If there had been 2 or more I would build I would have voted for them also.Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:56:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yeap, I see your point kc. But perhaps if you are totally fixed on just one model then this common build thread isn't for you. You'd be better in the "own choice" thread. If then this thread does select the model you plan to build anyway - well thats dandy. As I say I'm just a bit concerned that if we have a lot of folks on this thread that will only consider one model then we can't reach a concensus. BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:54:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 09/10/2011 13:51:52: Just to be clear - everyone who intends to take part should vote - it doesn't matter if you haven't been involved in the discussion so far - just the opposite in fact, you're the ones we particularly want to hear from! Basically we'd love to have a vote from everyone who chose this option in the poll. That way we'll end up with the most popular model and so with the greatest number of people taking part. BEB Don't you think this is getting a bit complicated? First of all it was split into those who wanted to all build the same model and those who wanted a free choice, then this poll initially asked for votes, without stating that it was to be votes only from those who are only interested in everyone building the same model, now it's for everyone to vote, but especially those who haven;t been involved in the discussion so far. Might have been better to make it quite clear who was intended to vote - and to avoid the additional complication of having two rounds of voting, to narrow the choice down to four possible models, then to vote all over again. It's not Strictly Come Dancing after all. Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:53:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 OK, fair point Leccky. Lets try and retrace our steps so as to make it clearer - I totally accept responsibility if it isn't clear - but I'll try to sort it now. 1. We are running two schemes side by side - one is for those who want a free choice of model and there is a "signing up thread" for that here. Now I've more or less let that run itself - cos it doesn't need much in the way of co-ordination. You pick your model according to your tastes and that's it. 2. The second stream is for those that said they would like to be part of a group building the same model. No problem there - but it does need more co-ordination - selecting the model etc. So we set up this thread to seek nominations - remember this is just for the "common build". 3. Once that thread had been open about two weeks and so everyone had had an opportunity to nominate a model, we ended up with a list of 8 nominated and seconded models. That's great, but eight is a few a too many to hold a simple ballot amongst - we probably end up with 5 votes for each model! Or worse still in a way, 6 votes for one and 5 each for the rest - hardly a convincing winner. 4. So we set up this thread - note we are still talking just about the common build model - the free choice guys are still looking after themselves elsewhere - this thread is aimed at getting the list down to 4 - that number on the short list worked well last time. So, who is this thread for? Its for those interested in building a common model. Should those really in the other stream - the free model stream - vote? Well if they want to yes - but I think they need to ask themselves "if this results in a different model being choosen am I going to do this?" If the answer to that question is a definite "no" then maybe they shouldn't be influencing the choice of the common model - they are happy with their free choice in the other stream. In the end of the day - there are no "rules" we just have to do our best to get a reasonably fair decision. So I'm relying on everyone's common sense telling them which stream they fit into best - I'm just trying to ensure that the model that emerges from the common choice stream is one that enjoys a reasonably wide cross section of support from those that want to build a common model. BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:52:31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The trouble is there will be cross-over. For example, I signed up to the "individual build" but if everyone wants to build the same as me then I'm obviously switching to the mass build.... As it happens my two choices for the free build are a Mini Super and a Mini Hog, both of which are on this list.Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:51:44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I find this very confusing BEB but if only the people who voted for a common build are eligible to vote in this election, please feel free to remove my vote for the Super 60. Being a "free choicer" I could of course end up building the same model as the "common model" element if the Super 60 is selected. Then which gang would I stand with at Greenacres Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:50:48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 In my opinion the concept of a mass build is to all build the same design to get some other peoples ideas on plan interpretation, construction methods, modernisation, engine size etc whilst you are building your own model. Lots of the time spent building is spent deciding to do it his way or that!. Consulting others will help. To this end it does not matter if 6 people build this model and 5 build that one. Room for several threads i think. So why not ask how many wiould build a Super Sixty, how many a Kwik Fli etc. Just a group of 4 at least would make it work. Maybe the idea is to show all the models when built. There are usually precious few planes athe Model Engineer Exhibition. It is very tight on time but perhaps a table at the Model Engineer Exhibition in December could be found for such a project. I would think that even part construted models would be worth exhibiting to show others how its done.Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:49:26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yes, that's a perfectly possible way forward. But let's get over this step first! At the moment we have 8 models - that's too many. Let's get it down to 4, then have the vote on them. If it turns out there is no clear winner and that all 4 have about equal support then we may well adopt something like what you are suggesting kc. Can I also remind everyone - to keep discussion to this thread not the voting thread - at some point I have to tot up the votes and its very difficult if they are buried amongst the chat. For that reason I have moved a lot of posts from the voting thread to here. BEB Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 12:48:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 What do we do next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 We encourage as many of the" common build" lot to vote as possible and nominate their "four for the shortlist"! We have to give folks time to do that. There are quite a few of them according to the poll where you had to pick one or the other - "common build" or "own choice". In fact, checking the poll, 40% of 135 respondees said they wanted to build a common model - so that's 54 people - we don't have anything like 54 votes yet! The "choose your own model" lot are happy and can just get on with getting ready. They can be thinking about buying their plan, or kit, and checking their supplies of balsa and pins ready for a 1st Nov start! BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/10/2011 17:33:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Leaving the 'common build' lot to carcrash their way to a conclusion, my Flair Black Magic kit has arrived but I am minus a plan and building instructions (I knew that when I bought it.....). I could probably cope without the instructions but I'm wondering if anyone has a copy of the Flair plan for this kit. I've found PDF's of the original plan and Replikit's cleaned-up version but I'd prefer to work to the pukka Flair plan. I have been contacted by a forumite re a plan but that seems to have come to naught. Is there anyone else who has built this model in the past who can send me a plan or copy thereof? All costs would be refunded and you'd have, as a bonus, my eternal thanks.......I'll put a wanted ad on the forum and see how it goes..... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Actually we are not 'common' but middle class and well spoken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 With a complete inability to follow simple instructions, it seems! Peteps Had I meant that, kc, I'd have written 'common' build thread.......... Edited By Pete B on 10/10/2011 21:03:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 No squabling at the back there or I'll have to give you both lines.... Actually Pete the bad news from your point of view is that kc is the only human being left on the planet who has a copy of the Black Magic plans Watcha gonna do now then? Mmmmm? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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