Is 35Mhz dead? (Availability issues).

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I think its great. very rare you clash on peg board now. see rx's and xtals for sale quite often

at price they are offered at you could stock up with some extras

im still using a jr 9x best box I've ever held. I also like the ariel, bit of ribbon on, use to check on wind

[Mark Stevens 1]

Agreed with John above, very rare to find anyone using your frequency these days so you can just switch on and go.

I'm still using a Hitec Eclipse 7 QPCM set, it also has the option to fit the module in the back if I wish to change over.

I have 9 Heli's, 7 of those kitted out with 35 Mhz receivers and servos. It is going to work out quite expensive to change them over so I'll stick with what I've got. Like the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Mark

[Peter Miller]

There are several of us in my small club who still fly 35 Mhz. In fact half of my models at least are on 35.

I even buy the odd 35 Mhz Rx and crystals on Ebay because they are so cheap. You might have to search for the right crystal and frequency but it is worth it.

[Rob Jones 2]

It is a pain for those who have invested a lot of money in 35mhz, but they are faced with the problem vinyl music collectors or video film collectors faced a few years back. My advice is try to sell now while there is still a market.2.4 has many advantages, the tiny Rxs, reliability, unique binding, short aerial,and increasing cheapness being most of them.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bearair]

Posted by Rob Jones 2 on 05/12/2013 09:42:06:

It is a pain for those who have invested a lot of money in 35mhz, but they are faced with the problem vinyl music collectors or video film collectors faced a few years back. My advice is try to sell now while there is still a market.2.4 has many advantages, the tiny Rxs, reliability, unique binding, short aerial,and increasing cheapness being most of them.

This post did make be laugh, especially the analogy with vinyl music collectors! I just sold my Linn Sondek LP 12 which I bought in 1982. I got £400 more than I paid for it and all this time it has been playing music better than any of the cd players which were going to replace it and make it obsolete.(admittedly there are some very high end cd players which came close) My record collection is worth many thousands, any of my Decca SXL records recorded in the sixties are worth at least a £10 and some £100. Nearly all these were bought from car boot sales, charity shops or most annoyingly (for the mates in question)their record collections which they were so eager to sell and replace with CD,s DAT,Mini Disc or any of the other technology's that have been and gone! Off course before that there was 8 track, cassettes etc. I bought a new turntable from AVID a company which did not even exsist when CDs were invented! But such is the enduring strength of vinyl there are more turntable manufactures now than ever before! And of course if some of the more modern music is your thing then you can buy it on vinyl still because most bands want there music to be heard on the best medium available and the only one which is likely to endure for another 100 years. I bet that you will not be able to buy a new MP3 or FLAC or whatever player in even 20 years time. I really pity the people who fall for the same hype every time and have to have the latest new thing, discarding perfectly good, tried and tested systems. You see just because you have a lot of money invested in an old technology it does not stop working just as well as it always has. And the only "pain" I suffered as a vinyl record collector was that of conscience( making so much money from people who sold theirs) but worry not I can live with it.!

As for your advantages.

1. Tiny RX's yes in absolute terms there are some rxs that are smaller than I have ever seen 35mhz, but thats only an advantage if you need a really tiny rx and most do not.

2.Reliability, I think not. Unless you have some evidence other than anecdotal the jury is very much out, and as Percy says come back in 25 years!

3. Unique Binding. I presume you mean model match or the MPX equivalent. Yes I can see how if your the sort of person who cannot read the name of the model the TX is programmed for and then check that against the model your about to fly, this would be a great advantage.

4. Short aerial. Umm no short aerials have been available to 35mhz's users for years in both tx and rx form! The fact that most people chose not to use them indicates to me that people did not see them as an advantage.

5. Increasing cheapness, possibly but only if you stick with one manufacturer. In fact that to me is one of the big advantages of 35mhz. You did not have to "buy into a brand" If you had a JR tx and Futaba brought out a much better TX you did not have to replace all your old RXs for the TX to work them.

There are advantages to 2.4g without a doubt but it does not make 35mhz obsolete in any way. I doubt anyone using 35mhz now will take your advice to sell since it makes no sense. Most people realise it is not an either or situation. Trust me, some people realise you can use both systems and enjoy the advantages both systems can offer.

Roger

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Rob Jones 2]

Posted by Bearair on 06/12/2013 11:37:39:

Posted by Rob Jones 2 on 05/12/2013 09:42:06:

It is a pain for those who have invested a lot of money in 35mhz, but they are faced with the problem vinyl music collectors or video film collectors faced a few years back. My advice is try to sell now while there is still a market.2.4 has many advantages, the tiny Rxs, reliability, unique binding, short aerial,and increasing cheapness being most of them.

This post did make be laugh, especially the analogy with vinyl music collectors!

You make valid points Roger, but no-one can halt the march of progress. Betamax was better that VHS and was used professionally years after home users all used VHS.I know a lot of music buffs are bitter about CDs taking over from LPs.And I wish I had kept my Gran's old wind-up gramophone with the brass trumpet, it would be worth many hundreds now.The point I was making was one of pragmatism- 35 is on the way out, 2.4 is in, whether we like it or now. So now might be a good time to trade in, if someone wants a good price. I know there are collectors who bid for single channel Mcgregors etc, but that is not what the average parkflyer is interested in.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

how about a different angle? we've never had it so good play your lp's at home roger , cd's for your car.

if your club has 50 members, must be lots of 35 gear available, just try asking at your field.

edf's are fine on 35mgz, so are petrols, if your having problems its your installation

enjoy your flying, listen your favourite album on way home

[Bearair]

Posted by Rob Jones 2 on 06/12/2013 15:25:19:

Posted by Bearair on 06/12/2013 11:37:39:

Posted by Rob Jones 2 on 05/12/2013 09:42:06:

It is a pain for those who have invested a lot of money in 35mhz, but they are faced with the problem vinyl music collectors or video film collectors faced a few years back. My advice is try to sell now while there is still a market.2.4 has many advantages, the tiny Rxs, reliability, unique binding, short aerial,and increasing cheapness being most of them.

This post did make be laugh, especially the analogy with vinyl music collectors!

You make valid points Roger, but no-one can halt the march of progress. Betamax was better that VHS and was used professionally years after home users all used VHS.I know a lot of music buffs are bitter about CDs taking over from LPs.And I wish I had kept my Gran's old wind-up gramophone with the brass trumpet, it would be worth many hundreds now.The point I was making was one of pragmatism- 35 is on the way out, 2.4 is in, whether we like it or now. So now might be a good time to trade in, if someone wants a good price. I know there are collectors who bid for single channel Mcgregors etc, but that is not what the average parkflyer is interested in.

I really cannot think of any old hi fi buffs around who are bitter about CDs taking over from LPs because they simply did not. CDs were a flash in the pan, Vinyl has endured. In ten years time no one will be using CDs. But they still will be using Vinyl. That was why I found your analogy using vinyl as an example of a superceded technology as you believe 35mhz to be, so amusing. 2.4g could turn out to be just another flash in the pan like cd's! We simply do not know. Obviously we also have a difference about what the word pragmatic means. I thought it meant dealing with things sensible, realistically and practically. If people have used a system for many years and found it reliable why rush to change it because of a theoretical advantage. IMHO no one knows what future technology is out there which might be released that will give huge advantages over 2.4g. Surely a pragmatist says I will stick with what has served me well and if I need to change for whatever reason I will assess the situation as an when it happens. I am not against new technology in anyway or 2.4g I use it myself but being a bit of a pragmatist I also use 35mhz and see no reason to stop using it.

John do people really still use outdated technology like cd's in there cars? How quaint

But you are of course quite correct, we really have never had it so good, with 2 systems to use and who knows what around the corner?

Roger

[Rob Jones 2]

You're bonkers,Roger. Just because CD are being superseded by even more advanced technology does not mean that we should cling to the past. Do you imagine that it 20 years time when data is being streamed wirelessly and seamlessly in our homes, the big corporations are suddenly going to say "well, blow me, let scrap all this and go back to vinyl disks, they were superior all the time and we just didn't realise it"?

[Bearair]

Oh dear you really are behind the times I think, didn't you know that cd's were rubbish and the industry thought so!

Here's a link for you to one of the most successful company's in Britain who have been in the forefront of music technology for the last 30 years. Note the product line up, music streamers that are considered some of the best in the world. Check out the other products, is that turntables?! And their cd player which was considered by some to be the best ever made? Gone, finished with! a dead end technology! Yet vinyl still in there. Linn

So in answer to your question, not twenty years time but NOW

Some technology endure's and some falls by the way side. I do not know if 2,4g is an enduring technology or not, only time will tell.

Roger the bonkers one!

Edited By Bearair on 06/12/2013 18:23:58

[Rob Jones 2]

Time will tell? The bell has already tolled for 35Mhz whether we like it or not!

[Bearair]

Posted by Rob Jones 2 on 06/12/2013 18:38:59:

Time will tell? The bell has already tolled for 35Mhz whether we like it or not!

I don't think so,still lots of people using it and some people are reporting swamping on 2.4g. Remember 35mhz is still the only band exclusively for our use. There are lots and lots of others using 2,4g and some reportedly using illegal high power outputs, we just do not know is the truth. Being a pragmatist I prefer to hedge my bets!

Roger

One final thought nearly any 35mhz TX can be converted cheaply and easily to 2.4g, I am not sure if it can be done the other way around.

[GONZO]

Full 'Ham' licence holders are legally entitled to use 400W PEP on 2.4gHz to 2.405gHz and 400W PEP on 2.415gHz to 2.425gHz, probably enough to cause swamping. Just look out for any houses nearby with aerial arrays. If your going illegal then 4W amps are readily available on the bay as are 26dB aerials. This would give you something in the order of 1600W ERP in the beam. Makes our 100mW (1/10W) on 2.4gHz to 2.4835gHz look like a flea bite. I feel we only get away with things at the moment because flying sites are generally remote locations and the legal/illegal users are low in numbers.

[Braddock, VC]

In honesty, who gives a monkeys. You can agonise till you're blue in the teeth but 2.4 is a major step forwards and those that complain, imho, aren't worth worrying about. Grow up please. Or continue using 35 and don't whinge.

[Phil Green]

Most people here are confusing the modulation technology with the actual band. It is spread spectrum modulation that has been the major leap forward, not 2.4ghz. In fact, the propogation characteristics of 2.4g make it a poor choice for model control but its the only ISM band available with airborne permissions and sufficient bandwidth for SS. It will become steadily more polluted with the accelerating adoption of wireless alarms, video, extenders, repeaters, etc, because it is an open, unlicensed ISM band which manufacturers are flooding with gear because the conformance requirements are so minimal.

With this in mind, demanding that those who defend against the probable loss of the only dedicated model aircraft band "grow up" seems ironically immature! Such are the demands on Ofcom for bandwidth, once a band is lost, the chances of having it restored are almost zero. Frequency allocations are hard fought for and should not be actively undervalued by those who appear not to have a full understanding of the process or the technicalities!

Cheers

Phil (a ham without a 400w transmitter)    

 

Edited By Phil Green on 07/12/2013 01:22:53

Edited By Phil Green on 22/12/2013 23:52:00

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

read your profile out of curiosity phil

you've too much time on your hands

you should get yourself a hobby

[Rob Jones 2]

At the end of the day we are only talking about toys.

[Phil Green]

Ultimately thats true Rob, the aim is to enjoy our toys. But while some simply buy the toy in order to achieve that aim, some enjoy the building, and others like myself are interested in the radio and electronics within the toy. To publicly ridicule fellow hobbyists as BVC did simply because they concentrate on aspects beyond "buy & fly" is I think unfair.

Cheers

Phil

 

 

 

 

Edited By Phil Green on 07/12/2013 09:10:21

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bearair]

Posted by Braddock, VC on 06/12/2013 23:06:42:

In honesty, who gives a monkeys. You can agonise till you're blue in the teeth but 2.4 is a major step forwards and those that complain, imho, aren't worth worrying about. Grow up please. Or continue using 35 and don't whinge.

FORUM I kind of thought the clue is in the title!

I enjoy discussion on many subjects and toy aeroplanes is definitely one of them.

In discussion sometimes you learn things and sometimes you help others to learn things. Whilst I am quite happy to be proved wrong (and often am) occasionally there are subjects where I feel I can give some thought provoking ideas. Most of the time I spend on forums I am simply reading threads and learning or enjoying the experiences others have took the time and trouble to relate.

Now I can quite understand why people get passionate about what appear to others to be the minutia of a subject and this can appear to others to be really geeky and anal. I do struggle to understand why anyone continues to read discussions that the feel are not worth worrying about, or are so convinced their opinion is correct there is no more discussion to be had!

Perhaps you could explain to me why you feel it is necessary to comment on a subject you feel so sure on without actually contributing to the debate! Apart from making derogatory comments, could I ask what extra information you feel your remarks have made to the debate? Did someone make you read what must of seemed to you like pages of drivel? Perhaps if you do not like the debate you could take your own advice and "not whinge" about those of us who think there is still a debate to be had.

You are quite right I have never grown up and still have a childlike mind that questions things, including established orthodoxies. I can honestly say that I do not have a opinion that I feel cannot be challenged as long as it is done in a civil way without resulting to abuse. However I did read a book once by a chap called Plato who suggested that this was partly what Forums are for!

Roger

[Rob Jones 2]

You are absolutely right Phil, it is a fine hobby with many facets.

But even with your knowledge in the field of radio technology, you must realise that 35 is on the way out and 2.4 on the way in .It may not be a good development, and it may turn out to be a disastrous development for the hobby, but it looks pretty much unstoppable.

I don't have your knowledge, but it seems to my ignorant mind that if each Tx and Rx are uniquely bound, then we will not need a protected frequency?

[Erfolg]

I personally still use 35 and have no issues with it other than the potential for frequency clash.

Phil Green makes a very relevant point, the benefit from 2.4 to my mind is the spread spectrum modulation.

I also take the point that Phil has made with respect other users and the increase of usage on 2.4.

It does seem to me that this is an area where the BMFA would serve its general RC members well by campaigning and actively seeking a band with the width for the sole usage of RC models. We should recognise that the purpose of our hobby is fun and pleasure, which we obtain from flying models. Safety is an issue which we should take seriously. It is arguable that 2.4 spread band technology has conceptually and actually achieved this desirable objective. Rather than the BMFA being hung up on CE marking, and misquoting what they mean. That is at the point of sale the equipment is compliant with EU regulations, and there is still an obligation of any user to ensure that the equipment when used is compliant, however obtained. The CE mark only indicates at the time of purchase it was compliant, hence many companies undertaking safety inspections on equipment on a recorded and regular basis. Far more benefit to members and the wider community would be gained from a dedicated spread spectrum band. It would be show us members that the BMFA is working towards future proofing the hobby, via a publicly visible campaign and not the interests of the modelling retail trade.

[Bearair]

Rob here's an analogy it is not a very good one but I hope it sort of explains it.

Imagine you are sat in an empty pub chatting to your mate you can hear each other perfectly. The pub starts to fill up and there are lots of others chatting away, you can still hear your mate because you brain is clever enough to filter out all the background noise so its just a background hum and concentrate on what your mate is saying. Then Motorhead start playing on the pub stage with there 100mega watt amps. Your brain is still trying to understand only what your mate is saying but the background noise is so powerfull your brain simply cannot filter the other noise out. This is sort of what swamping is to 2.4g

Roger