Pete B Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I thought I'd start a new thread on version 2 of the HK 3-axis Flight Stabiliser as I'm sure I'll not be the only forumite trying one out and we can pool experiences here. Unfortunately, my test-flight was rather curtailed......... I decided to fit one to my E-Flite Cub 25, which has flown well for the past three years or so with an Orange 6-ch Rx and satellite. No problem with wiring up the gyro as I've already experience with the i86AP and Eagle A3 Pro on other models and all are similar in their installation. With my DX8, I am using AUX1 as the on-off channel, controlled from the Flight Mode switch - my standard for the stabilisers. As the FM is a 3-position switch, I found by trial and error that by mixing AUX1-AUX1, I could have the 'on' position at 0 and 'off' at 1 or 2. In testing, there was quite a lot of servo noise whether the unit was on or off. The HS81 servos on rudder and elevator were constantly buzzing but with no movement, the Emax ES08A aileron servos much the same. Reports over on RCG seem to suggest that the cheaper the servo, the less jitter/noise is experienced. I also noticed a very slight degree of rudder interaction to aileron or elevator inputs for a short time after switching-on which, flying Mode 2, I couldn't understand. As this interaction stopped after, perhaps, 20 seconds from switch on, I judged that it wasn't sufficient to interfere with normal flight. Taking the gyro out of the loop, I re-confirmed that, without it, the servos were their normal silent selves, so I replaced it with the second gyro I'd purchased. Same effect, noisy servos. There has been some discussion that the gains respond in a more linear fashion on the V2 than they did on the V1. I haven't had a V1 but I didn't find the adjustment particularly linear and was carefully to adjust them to a mild but noticeable response for initial flights. Out to the strip, range check OK, gyro switched to 'off' position for take-off with the intention of climbing to height to test it out. Take-off was normal but within a couple of seconds it appeared that there was a brief uncommanded 'up' elevator movement followed immediately by a 'down' movement, terminating in a dive nose-first into the ground from about 15 feet..... Reaching the scene of the crash, the Rx and satellite indicator lights were still on, so unlikely to be a problem with the Rx. Gyro light still on, too. The Cub's a tough old bird. Despite a wince-inducing head-on impact, I seem to have got away with a couple of hours work to restore her: Wings are undamaged, motor needs stripping to remove mud and the whole airframe will get a once-over for any stress fractures, so all-in-all I'm counting myself lucky. All that saved acetate packaging should provide a new windscreen...... That just leaves the reason for the crash to be established now........any suggestions? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericrw Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hi.Pete, hope we can find out the cause of the crash as I'm awaiting arrival of the v2 gyro from HK. Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Geezer Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Me too, I have a Spacewalker which is a nightmare on wheels (until it leaves the ground!) - all I need is a gyro on the rudder channel to tame the brute when taking off - dodging about like a hyperactive stickleback. The taxi back after landing isn't too bad 'cos you can keep the speed down, just blipping the throttle to keep moving, but accelerating to take-off speed - - - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Oh dear! Poor old Cub - lucky it's got you as an owner Pete and as they say -"you have the technology -you can rebuild her!" Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm not expecting any early result, Eric - we are looking at each other in a mutual sulk at present......I didn't realise an aeroplane could look at me accusingly - subjecting it to that indignity, indeed...... If you don't want all the functions, GS, you can always turn down the gain, or just use a cheap single-channel GS gyro Having said that, in respect of squirrelly take-offs, the Piper Cub is notorious and I learnt a useful tip about them. Normally, one applies up-elevator at the start of the run with tail-draggers to keep the tail down. The down-force generated reduces the rudder's effectiveness. Accelerating gently without the up-elevator, which allows the tail to lift in its own time, means the rudder becomes effective earlier than it would otherwise. I've used this technique on both my Cubs, Decathlon and Rainbow and it certainly seems to work and they behave much better for it. Worth a try? Pete. ps just seen your post, Terry - for me, parsimony outweighs technology any day........... Edited By Pete B on 28/01/2013 21:49:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Just another gizzmo to "help" you fly eh? I could suggest you go all electronical and by any new thing to help you fly better. However,knowing you as I do ,I don't blame you for having a go at something different ( just like me ).I'm thinking about some GPS system for taking aerial photos of houses/farms/ etc around here lifted by one of those quadro thingies . Glad to see the cub is repairable .It's a Flair one isn't it ? How do I know that . A la renaissance ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Geezer Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Pete B - thanks for the input - I will definitely give the gentle approach a go first - main reason for giving it the beans with full up is to get the SW off the ground before it trips over it's own prop on our rough patch. If "Plan A" fails I'll the suggested Gyro. Gurth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 You raise a very debatable issue there, Myron. Personally, I don't think it 'helps' me to fly, as such. It's not an auto-pilot and doesn't have any self-levelling capability, unlike an Eagletree, for example, but what it does do is make the model appear more stable and scale-like in the air, which enhances its appearance in flight. After all, if I'm flying a 'scale/near-scale' model, my intention is, as far as possible, to create the illusion of a full-size aircraft and the stabiliser adds to the overall effect, IMHO. I can never hope to react to gusts and up/downdraughts with the speed of the stabiliser - it's not physically possible, so yes, you could say it helps in that respect. Others use a stabiliser to extend the range of windspeeds in which they can comfortably fly. I've proved that I can fly a model in gusty conditions and generally speaking, I've been pretty successful in getting the model back on the ground without damage, so having the stabiliser is just a bit of additional insurance that may prevent me from being caught out. Having said that, I'll always enjoy the challenge of vertical landings on a wild day, with or without assistance! The feedback I read seems to suggest that most folk who try a stabiliser find it a very positive experience and it is just another enhancement available to enable us to enjoy flying. I'm not sure it is very much different from all the other aids that have progressively become available to us over the years - programmable Tx's, expo, rates, crow, camber, on-board glow, etc, etc. As you say, I'm having a go at something different and finding it beneficial. You mention the quadrocopter - clearly they can make aerial photography much less of the hit-or-miss affair using a fixed-wing tends to be - so, if they're available, they're probably the better tool to use for that purpose. I'm just grateful that I can take advantage, at relatively limited expense, of the product of minds far more capable than mine........... It's the E-Flite Cub 25, Myron - 60" span ARTF. It doesn't get too many airings these days as I've got too many others to fly! I'll probably leave it for a day or two before I assess the damage and start the repairs. Pete ps Have you flown that Easyglider yet? - still waiting on a flight report, you know.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Pete - I have some GS Cub yellow covering if you want to try it? It looks the same tone but just a shade deeper - I'll bring some tomorrow. My contribution to the cause of model aviation science development! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Make that "My contribution to Model Aeronautical Development (MAD)" instead - it seems more appropriate somehow! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericrw Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I did have the original stabiliser from HK and I fitted it to a E-Pioneer. One day flying it, I was low and lost it behind a tree. My friend could see it from where he was standing and told me he saw it spiralling downwards. As soon as I lost sight of it I closed the throttle and relaxed the aileron control on my transmitter but did not switch the tranny off. We spent almost a week looking for the model in the ripe cornfield behind the tree but with no success ! It was found a week later by the Farmer, in an adjacent field. At the time of flying, I did not know the stabiliser was on and I concluded that as soon as I relaxed the controls the stabiliser took over, levelled out and flew into the next field. Luckily, it was a week without rain and the model was repairable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordy Div Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 28/01/2013 18:14:17: I thought I'd start a new thread on version 2 of the HK 3-axis Flight Stabiliser as I'm sure I'll not be the only forumite trying one out and we can pool experiences here. Unfortunately, my test-flight was rather curtailed......... ...... That just leaves the reason for the crash to be established now........any suggestions? Pete Hi all, Gday Pete, I recently purchased two of these v2 3 axis stabilisers, I read your posting and was "happy" to see almost identical symptoms to my experience tonight, meaning for me that it wasn't my gear, just this 'Gyro' K also did all the trouble shooting, isolating the gyro etc, I also noticed the interaction with rudder and elevator when using a little aileron. An interesting thing I found during my trouble shooting, If I powered up the gyro and receiver with the Aux function on i.e the gyro active, it seemed to have much less jitter, the continuous hunting or humming of the servos was still there (very annoying) but the interaction had decreased significantly, quite disappointed with the whole thing and I'm not really convinced its flyable at the moment. Have you or any one else had an further problem solving ? or fixes ? Thanks all regards Mordy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi Mordy, No gyro progress yet - too many other irons in the fire at present! I've rebuilt the Cub, just got to repaint the repaired cowl, then I'll fly her without and find another more expendable model to continue the V2 test. I fitted an i86AP from HK to my West Wings Fournier and that worked well. I'll swap that for the V2 and see what happens - will let you know Pete ps Welcome to the forum, by the way! Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 21/02/2013 12:27:09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott cuppello Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I never had too much to do with the Orange Flight Stabilizer when I was in Hong Kong but I did set one up recently, few tips: Watch the gains, the pots do little from zero to around 50-60%, then they get sensitive. Unit must be secure and mounted as close to C of G as possible. Wind up gains to maximum while checking orientation/direction of control surfaces, once you are happy that all the control surfaces are compensating in the right direction for pitch/roll/yaw.....now, wind them back to around 50%, fly/adjust, fly/adjust.....turn each pot by no more than around 1/16-1/8th of a turn at a time, note that roll (ailerons) is more sensitive than the others and will almost certainly need less adjustment. To give you an idea, I ended up really happy with the unit (basically, you could not really tell a unit had been fitted, there was no over-compensation) with the roll pot at around 1 o'clock and the others at nearer 2 o'clock. If the gains are too high you are heading for trouble and possibly burnt out servo's, crashes can occur from servo lock so it has to be gently does it while setting it up and pre-flights are an absolute must. Edited By Scott Cuppello - HobbyKing on 21/02/2013 15:50:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruprect Spode Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hello Scott, Thank you for your advice. Can you expand on the orientation please, are you saying that how it is finally mounted is specific only to that particular stabiliser and there is not a generic front, back,left, right, up and down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott cuppello Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 No, sorry if I was unclear....I am refering to the control surface reactions and making sure that they are the correct orientation in relation each axis, eg: Pick the tail up and make sure the elevator goes "up" and not "down" and so on. The mounting of the unit itself should be pins front, although you can turn the unit through 180 degrees.....but remember this may reverse the reactions of control surfaces.....main thing to remember is this, it must be mounted in the same orientation used to set it up, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruprect Spode Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Scott That's great and thank you for your prompt response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Yes, thanks for that, Scott - I would agree that too-high elevator gain would contribute to my symptoms but they were all deliberately set to a minimal response and the gyro was 'off' for the launch, so I'll keep investigating Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seecomber Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I had a good deal of sucess with the Orange Mk 1 stabiliser but found it was heavy on battery power ie the batteries power fell away more rapidly than usual. I have bought the Mk2 which has several improvements but the main one for me was the ability to switch it on and off in flight and preserve battery power. I have not installed it in a model but my trial setups cannot switch off the unit.I am connecting the Aux to either Gear or flaps i.e. an on/off channel ,reversed the little dip swtches and raised and lowered the EPA on these channels to no effect.The comments on Hobby King frequently raise this problem but despite applying all the remedies mine will not switch off. I am using the Futaba 6EX transmitter and wonder if anyone else has experienced this problem or has otherwise helpful comments to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm on Spekky gear so can't offer anything constructive re the Futaba but someone familiar with the Tx may be able to help. The important thing on the gyro is to ensure the 1st dip switch, Aux/Gyro, is moved to the left. I do follow this thread over on RCG. If you can wade through the chat, there's probably a solution somewhere in there! I've linked to page 58 as that is where V2 makes an appearance. A question on there might get you a quick answer Pete ps I've just had a quick search of that thread and come up with this: Also if the TX has Gear endpoints set to high or low, the Stabilizer will not turn off, set them to 0 & 100 as advised in the previous post That may or may not be helpful... Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 21/02/2013 23:52:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Olsen 1 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I have a version 2 but it has not gone into a plane yet. I do have a version 1 in a foamy and a Fyetech unit in a Superstik, both seem to steady the model OK. They don't actually fly it for you...well the Fyetech unit can on heading hold but I haven't tried that yet, not having the need to maintain a fixed heading for more thaqn one leg of a circuit. Regarding the original post and the cause of the crash, did you check that both the control movement from the TX controls and the control movement for correction from the gyro are correct? It is possible for them to disagree. You get the gyro movement in the correct sense by means of the controls on the gyro and you get the Tx movement in the correct sense by the programming or reversing switch on TX. The movement from the gyro can be quite fleeting so it is hard to check. If it is wrong it will of course be destabilising the aircraft. Other than that...well, all the usual suspects can still go wrong! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Yes, John, the movements were checked numerous times for correct control input and gyro response whilst setting up. I increase the gain to max for setting up as it gives a more exaggerated response, making it easier to see, and then I back them off for the maiden, gradually increasing them after each flight if necessary. The elevator gain on the first flight was marginally over 50%, between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock as you look at it. This was giving a soft response in testing, so I wouldn't have expected such a reaction in the air, if indeed it was the elevator that was responsible. The servo noise was still there even with the gains reduced, so I'm wondering if the gyro was having some unwanted interaction between the Tx and control surface. I'll get there.... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seecomber Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thanks Pete B. The secret of the on/off has revealed itself,more by accident than design and with your useful comments. I was expecting the `on` light on the gyro unit to go off when it was inoperative but discovered by accident that it can be in off mode with the light still on and only a physical test will show it is inoperative. The EPA on the control (I use `Gear`) has to be set at 50/100(otherwise it does not seem to work). ,The top dip switch has to be at reverse I have gone into a lot of detail because I know this Aux control has caused a lot of puzzlement on the HK site and I suspect many users may be expecting the on light to switch off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Glad you're sorted - it's just a pity the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to issue revised instructions for V2 and appear to have left it to the customers to work out..... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott cuppello Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Please see files Tab on the product listing.....instructions and relevant information can be downloaded in seconds from that section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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