Too Windy To Fly

[Pete B]

Excellent post, Ross - given that the situation we are discussing here is that of an absolute newbie who has:

a) yet to fly - full stop;

b) has a selection of lightweight foamy models, some of which will be a little more forgiving than others;

c) does not have the benefit of an experienced flyer to set up the models or offer guidance other than that he is receiving here; and...

d) is understandably busting a gut to fly his models!

Now, this is probably not the ideal way to start the hobby in many folks' eyes but it is the situation in which Greg finds himself, so we've got to make the best of it. Plainly Greg will have to contain himself until the wind drops to give himself the best chance of success.

With the benefit of this knowledge, keep posting, folks - it'll give Greg something to mull over until the wind drops!

Pete

[john melia 1]

thing is how do you know what the maximum wind conditions are for any given model ? Is it just a case of trial and error , throw it up and see ? Or is there some way of working out how much wind a model can reasonably fly in.

I'm asking because like the op , i'm sick of waiting for decent weather , constant wind basically since last bank holiday monday , and wind forecast for 90% of next week with rain thrown in .

I have the 70 inch sedona which i've managed to fly just once , and the dolphin edf from hobbyking , and would love to know if there is a way to work out what these two models would fly in .

[Rich too]

Generally heavy models with higher wing loadings are better, but to be honest its never bothered me with any model. I would have gone and flown my Wot 4 foame today, but I am waiting to maiden the Extra - I am reluctant to maiden a model in windy conditions. I know if i go to the field I wont leave until i've flown! The worst thing is actually not the wind, but the unpredictable gusts..Rich

[Wingman]

Here's a quote from Mick Reeves about flying in the wind:-

"I heared this comment.
"Light models are no good in wind, they have no penitration."
By 'penitration', they mean 'airspeed'.
So - light models have low airspeed?
Easy to solve - open the throttle and put in
DOWNTRIM to hold it level!
High speeds are possible with light models.
My biplanes fly in all weathers, and even my Bleriot
flew in 20 mph wind at the Nats."

And Ross " making sure i was fast enough upwind and slow enough downwind." You don't want to be reducing your throttle going downwind as you can easily get yourself into a stall situation

[chris basson]

No more pills Greg, get one of these instead Here. Cheap as chips, flys in anything and addictive fun. Whata-you-mean it's not a trainer? Its unbreakable (or nearly). It will get a bit battered but you will end up getting another eventually as you will be hooked. Every one should have a Wildthing for when it is too windy for sensible flying! Enjoy.

Ain't That True Piers! Just come back from my second outing with my 60" 'Thing, Wind on the Long Mynd was 35mph Gusting to 45mph, at one point I was unable to push forward but the rate of climb whilst apparantly hovering put a Massive Grin on my Face!

CB

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I agree Wingman. The safest course by far is to leave the throttle alone! If it penerates up wind fine - when it goes down wind sure the ground speed will increase but if you have the same throttle setting its airspeed will be exactly the same. Just let the model fly the conditions and ignore the ground speed.

Comment to Greg - I really understand your frustration, you're dying to "have a go" - but resist the temptation. Here today its 10mph regularly gusting to 30+mph. I won't fly in this. I would fly if it was say 20 gusting 25mph but not with it as blustery as it is now. The problem is the variation - its not a problem flying - if your model bobs up and down 10 feet whilst 100 feet up no problem. It the landing where the smashes happen - because then its bobbing up and down 10 feet while 5 feet off the ground!

Now that's my position and I'm used to flying in wind. You are still to maiden these models and yourself! Keep your powder dry mate - wait for a better day - discretion is definitely the better part of valour. I've seen the "macho men" - the ones that say "Oh I fly in any wind - only whimps don't fly in the wind" etc. etc. And I've watched them afterwards as well - picking up the pieces and putting them in the black bin bag.

BEB

[Djay]

When it gets really windy here in Dubai, I take out my lightest vintage models.

Either my BB Majestic Major, or Svenson Vicomte, both of which on a no wind day putter around at 5 mph with no real power or speed, and both only 3 channel.

They fly brilliant in the wind, hovering, backwards, prop hanging , vertical landings and take offs, and spot landings. I have more fun in strong winds with light models than any other time. The people at our club now have all invested in the lightest cheapest foamy gliders to fly when it is to windy for ic or jet models, and we stay aloft for hours having fun with multiplex gliders, parkzone gliders and similar.

When I test flew my Flair Fokker D7 in the UK many years back, I could just stand up in the wind, but was determined to fly it. It took off backwards and then flew niceley.

The aeroplanes do not know wind, they just fly, so as long as you can stand up you can fly.

Do not be put off by the weather, it is all phsycological.

Darryl

[Ross Clarkson]

@ Wingman:

Thats a completely fair point, i did look back at that and wonder whether i should change the wording.

What i was trying to get at without putting too a finer point on it was, and this is how i have always flown:

Because i was using a lot of throttle to get the model moving forwards, in the initial crosswind turn i did reduce the throttle slightly to contain the ground speed on the downwind leg (Stop it actually screaming back down) . Due to previous circuits and a good knowledge of my model i was happy with my airspeed on the downwind leg enabling me to reduce the throttle on that initial turn/climbout.

Then, on the base leg turn i had to make sure i increased throttle quite a bit to get the forward motion back. Focusing on forward motion rather than airspeed as i knew there was ample airspeed, just hardly no groundspeed!

My choice of words was probably quite poor.

Edited By Ross Clarkson on 12/05/2013 10:01:53

[Rich too]

I agree, just maidened my Parkzone Extra and it flew great. I only had one flight just to say I'd done it, but not knowing the model too well that was enough. Spent the rest of the time flying my Wot4 foam e - wind does not bother it. Rich

[Ian Jones]

Posted by Dickster on 11/05/2013 18:19:06:

Generally heavy models with higher wing loadings are better, but to be honest its never bothered me with any model. I would have gone and flown my Wot 4 foame today, but I am waiting to maiden the Extra - I am reluctant to maiden a model in windy conditions. I know if i go to the field I wont leave until i've flown!

The worst thing is actually not the wind, but the unpredictable gusts..Rich

Too Right!

20 mph steady down the strip - no problem, gusting crosswind... oooh motherrrr

It's not just tyhe wind it's how fair she blows .

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

The notion of speed has killed more models (and many full sized pilots) than you could shake an aerial at...

To throttle back and maintain height as people are so tempted to do in these conditions simply means that you either deliberately or sub-conciously increase the angle of attack. As any aerodynamicyst will tell you, exceed the critical angle and you will stall, regardless of speed - either airspeed or groundspeed. Throw in the effects of turbulence which can give an almost instantaneous change of AoA and you have the classic recipe for a stall/spin situation.

Djay - I suspect you fly in wide open spaces where a strong wind isn't tumbling its way over and round the trees, hedges, barns etc. which litter our typical British countryside. As you say, the wind strength has little or no effect on the model when it's flying but it is critical in the interaction between ground and air.

My personal choice for stupidly windy conditions (like last Thursday for example) is a lightweight EPP foam profile 3D Extra which is responsive enough to handle unexpected "events" and is bounceable - and easy to simply glue back together when the bounce exceeds the able...

[Ross Clarkson]

Agree with those last 3 posts completely.

[Djay]

Hi Martin.

We do have an open space to fly, but the wind comes across the desert , over the dunes and is very turbulent. Then we have the club houses, buildings around the flying site, and worst of all the heat creates thermals which are like vertical windshear, combined with rapidly changing wind directions in a few minutes. So I find that flying conditions sometimes are worse then when I flew in UK..

this is why I bring out the very light but descent size models in the wind as they do not have the speed which will catch you out if you hit turbulance, and you have the time to react and fly the model rather than be constantly on the edge of a crash.

Darryl

[Mart49]

I'm following this with interest as I've been a little reluctant to fly in strong wind. The place that I'd normally fly is surrounded by houses and warehouses, so the wind would cause all sorts of situations caused by the turbulance. However, Ive just stared to fly on an enormous playing field (think 20+ foodball pitches) and it is surrounded by flat farmland. A few weeks ago I flew for the first time in 20+mph winds, both a foamie and and a 2m glider and they were both brilliant. Very predictable. Its just the gusting....

[john melia 1]

ok , i'm sick of this wind too , so i might begin looking at a glider so at least i can continue my flying re-education , anyone got any ideas on what would make a good first glider able to cope with strongish winds

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Interesting stuff Darryl - I wondered about dunes but assumed that the wind-shaped profile would have left the air relatively undisturbed but seems that's not the case.

If you are getting strong thermal activity then you'll get a lot of local wind direction shifts - something I didn't think about as the concept of a hot day is a dimly remembered memory over here!

I'm not sure that the models you mentioned would do too well in the 20 mph gusting 30 conditions we seem to be experiencing - they'd certainly need to do a bit more than puttering at 5 mph so must have a wide speed range!!! The last couple of times I've had to resort to the foamy, the throttle has been wide open for the duration of the flight with only momentary excursions from being pointed directly into wind in order to stay in the field...

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I agree with Martin - something "bobable, bouncable and repairable" because its going to bob, then bounce and, sooner rather than later, you going to need to repair!

BEB

[Djay]

Hi Martin.

I fly these planes in winds from 15mph up to 25 mph, above this the sand is sweeping across the ground and it is uncomfortable to fly.

The stronger the wind, the better they fly , as they have no real weight or speed, flying them is enjoyable as they are paractically stationary, but open the throttle and down elevator and away they go. Lots of fun, and as they are so ligh tthey do not get smacked into the ground in a gust, just open the throttle and up elevator and they climb without moving forward to much.

John.have a look at the Multiplex range of foam gliders, Cularis, Solaris, easy glider etc, or the parkzone Radian.

Loads of us in our club have just brought these and we stay up for hours in the wind, with very little cost. I just brought the radian 3 channel for about 150 pounds ready to go, with r/x , t/x, servos, batteries etc and it flies great..

Hopefully our windy weather will come to an end soon and the hot weather will start, up to 50c and 100% humidity.

lovely flying weather.

Darryl

 

Edited By Djay on 13/05/2013 12:44:20

[Darlo0161]

Hi Greg

As a fellow "waiting to learn-er" I feel your pain.

I've got a foamie and three batteries all charged but everytime I'm free (I have a wife and two kids) its windy, or raining, or windy and raining, or dark.

The one morning I got to the flying field, it rained as I got there and there was no-one there anyway.

I was starting to feel very frustrated with it all but the your post and the responses have cheered me up no end. I'm not the only one, brilliant.

I can't wait to fly in wind etc but as ive never had the thing off the ground i'm going to wait for a bit of sun and instruction.

N

[WolstonFlyer]

Hi Darlo0161

I am in a similar position, (Wife and 3 kids) and there are so many other demands on my time, it is very frustraining!.

When I do get a chance to go up to the field it has recently been far too windy (25 - 30 mph) or raining.

Trying to practice for my A test, it is very hard to make progress. In fact three other club members have passed theirs recently, but they are all older / retired gents who can fly any day of the week and pick the nice days to spend all day at the field while I am stuck at work.

What I have been doing is going to as many organised indoor sessions as I can and flying a foamy (and smashing plenty of props on walls and floor in the process) to at least get in some flying time.

[Darlo0161]

That's not a bad idea bit having not been airborne yet it seems a little ahead for me.
I bought Clearview as a sim I realise its probably not hyper accurate but the physics models seems ok and I'm getting used to the eyes of the controller flying that I know I'll need.

I'm hoping to join Bury I don't think they have indoor flying but they might have it somewhere local.

[Carl Muff]

hi try flying very early in the morning worked for me

[JC]

I know how you feel Greg.

I never used to fly if there was anything above a slight breeze. The fact is that a bit of wind or even a strong breeze is a definite advantage. Particularly when landing as your air speed can be kept up while your ground speed (landing speed) is slowed down. The wind is your friend, as long as you take off and land into it you will be surprised how much wind a model can take.

I used to fear it but not anymore. Particularly as my landing skills are still truly terrible.

Don't give up.

JC

[john melia 1]

well the wind is gusting over 40mph here , so i'm gonna get one of these instead

[john melia 1]

no probs with wind with that 

Edited By john melia 1 on 13/05/2013 18:12:30