Hi from an old newbie anyone remember keil kraft

[Paul Richardson]

Just dropped in to say hello. Flew control line planes with my dad when I was 14 spent many an hour in the shed building planes with him in winter and flew a keil kraft ? fw 190 with an early OS max 1.5cc glow up front first plane was also a keil kraft not sure of model but that had a merlin dc engine no glow plug and just by coincidence he also built a Tucano from a kit with I beleive a 6.5cc tiger engine upfront now at the grand old age of 47 the bug has returned .

Joined the BMFA and subscribe to RCME . Used to fly RC but after all yhese years will probably need to build a trainer to learn to fly again .

currently building a flair pupeteer 11 , Irvine 40 ic power on the shelf have a mosquito electric motors to build and will be building a trainer to learn to fly again (yet to purchase) before trying to get my BMFA wings .

happy flying and building

Paul

[Roger 2]

Hi Paul

I still have a 1970's Kiel Kraft Ivory Gull 100' glider with an OS 10 power pod, I have resprayed the fuselage once but the wings and engine are original. I only fly it in good conditions, it has a lot of presence and still turns heads.

Roger

[John Privett]

Paul, yes I'm sure a lot of us on here remember Keil Kraft. I still have my 1973(ish?) vintage KK Handbook, and occasionally post page scans from it on here where something relevant to it comes up. When I started in R/C in the mid-70s (with a David Boddington designed Tyro Major) the KK Super 60 was still one of the most common trainers being flown.

Some of the old KK models are now available in the Ben Buckle range.

Edited By John Privett on 12/05/2013 16:04:03

[fly boy3]

Hi Paul, welcome to the forum, and to your new found enthusiasm. Its like riding a bike. LoL. Yes many on this forum well remember the Kiel Kraft era and models. my first KK was a glider called the Cadet. So long ago I cannot remember a lot about it. Its still around I think in kit form made by "Replikit" Cheers

[Roger 2]

Hi FB3

KK Cadet.........My god you take me back, they came out in the, I think very early 60's you could make two versions one was a straight glider with a bent hair grip for the tow hook and the other used a jettex motor.

I made both. One summers evening I spent ages trimming the one with a jettex out, lit the fuse and as far as I know it is still flying. It went up....up...and that was the last I saw of it . I had to save up for the motor and all I had left was the jettex pellets.

Cheers

Roger

[John Privett]

Posted by Roger 2 on 12/05/2013 16:02:49:

KK Cadet........

Page 30 in my old handbook!

[kc]

My first model was the KK Cadet back in 1955...........I was pleased to see there is a copy of the Cadet plan on Outerzone for anyone who wants a nostalgic moment. Lots of other plans too.

I strongly recommend starting again with a trainer or even a Wot4 etc rather than risking a scale model, and getting a good pilot to fly it with you on a Buddy Lead for the first few flights. Many clubs wont let you fly solo without an A certificate anyway. And I have seen lots of experienced ( they said ...) pilots prang a model on their first flight back after some years. Not worth risking.

Also I always ask another experienced pilot to give me a check on control directions etc whenever I bring a new model for a first flight or a model with a new radio etc. Just in case I made a mistake with control directions etc........

 

Edited By kc on 12/05/2013 17:27:23

[Paul Richardson]

Thankyou for al the replies, have been surfing found a keil kraft phantom ....

I flew one of those in my youth ...it's like being a child in a sweet shop flying saucer anyone .... yes i was the proud owner of a cadet as well until it met an untimely end with a hoover junior wielding mother cleaning my bedroom at the time I was devastated.

[Paul Richardson]

Posted by kc on 12/05/2013 17:12:25:

My first model was the KK Cadet back in 1955...........I was pleased to see there is a copy of the Cadet plan on Outerzone for anyone who wants a nostalgic moment. Lots of other plans too.

I strongly recommend starting again with a trainer or even a Wot4 etc rather than risking a scale model, and getting a good pilot to fly it with you on a Buddy Lead for the first few flights. Many clubs wont let you fly solo without an A certificate anyway. And I have seen lots of experienced ( they said ...) pilots prang a model on their first flight back after some years. Not worth risking.

Also I always ask another experienced pilot to give me a check on control directions etc whenever I bring a new model for a first flight or a model with a new radio etc. Just in case I made a mistake with control directions etc........

Edited By kc on 12/05/2013 17:27:23

Thanks Kc will be going the learn to fly again route thought of an irvine 40 tutor to learn again budget is a bit restricted so have a saturn 4ch tx at the moment and 4 tower sg servos may have to revise this before i Start flying do play with a nanostik at the moment but my sons keep getting their hands on it...lol, whilst building is my main passion spent hours tracing off old plans and cutting balsa for my dad to build and was his test pilot wasn't allowed to play with the engines something to do with chicken stick starts , fingers and hospital trips to get stitches then he bought a starter and an old car battery that weighed a ton until he knocked up a trolley cutting the wheels and axle off my sisters pushchair mum wasn't best pleased but that's another story...

Paul

[fly boy3]

Hi Roger2 , I flew the Cadet a few yards, my young friend did the same as you,and lit up his Jetex, and as you say we never found it. LoL.

For John Privet, I had to save up for many weeks to buy my Cadet, and I can see it was 59p in 1955 when I built. it. Any idea what 59p would be in todays money ? Cheers

[Martyn K]

I have just completed a KK Senator and carved the prop from block. Plan to fly it in BMFA FF Mini Vintage competitions. The new one (scratch built from a plan) is somewhat lighter than the kit version with plastic prop that I built 42 years ago

Welcome back

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 12/05/2013 21:44:04

[John Privett]

Posted by fly boy3 on 12/05/2013 21:02:12:

 

Any idea what 59p would be in todays money ?

Good question! I can tell you that the KK Handbook itself only cost 20p. And for around the same price as the Cadet you could have bought;

2 Merco glow plugs - 28p each

12x6 KK nylon prop - 48p

1 pint Nitrex 15 (glow fuel) - 47.5p

12 medium tubes of balsa cement - 5p each

40 lengths (36" ) of piano wire, 16swg or smaller - 1.5p each.

If you'd wanted to try your hand at the relatively-new proportional R/C then a second mortgage might have been required to fund an OS DP-4P radio. Tx, Rx, batteries, charger and 4 servos for a mere £95. Ouch!

 

Edited By John Privett on 12/05/2013 22:05:11

[TheFlyingCrust]

Hi Paul, have a look here for a bit of nostalgia. Loads of plans to peruse - most of the old KK range.

Oh, and a welcome from me.

Ian

[Colin Leighfield]

I built the Cadet as a schoolboy in about 1957. It was my second model after a Frog Minx 30" rubber powered plane. There was no money for anything in those days and the only time you had a few bob normally was a birthday. 5 shillings was a fortune.A typical price for the small Keil Kraft kits was three shillings and eight pence, about 18p. Can't remember exactly the price for the Cadet, but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near as much as 59p, or nearly 12 shillings! ( 1 shilling equals 5p).

I have got a Cadet now, built a few years ago from the Replikit kit. It flies very well and is a candidate for modern lightweight radio. It is 30" wingspan, but there was a smaller version of it called the Cub, which was 20" wingspan and there was a further version on the plan with the lower fuselage cut away for a Jetex 50. I don't remember a Jetex version of the larger Cadet. Perhaps it is the Cub that Roger 2 is referring to? Apart from the scaling down, the Cub is visually identical to the Cadet.

When I had a bit more money in my teens I built a Mercury Martin and a Contest Kits Inchworm A2. very good gliders. I have got modern short kits of both of these to build when I get around to it, also a Mercury Marauder A2. With current adhesives, these models are a sound proposition and with light radio and electric power possibilities, they open up all kinds of opportunities.

[ozjimthree3]

Hallo Paul, its good to hear about your enthusiastice return to model flying. A few years ago, I built a Skystreak 40 from plans bought on a famous auction site, it was to celebrate the 60th year since my oldest friend flew the model in the West Hants control line stunt event. The model was built between us as neither could afford the total cost. We drew lots on who would fly the comp, my chum won. He won the comp too! A few weeks later we had a kind note and an even kinder postal order for 10s/6d from Eddie Keil. I have two photos of me holding the Skysteak, I don't know which one is worst, me at sixteen with lots of hair and "attitude"or the last one at seventy six with little hair left at all.

Model aeroplanes are definitely good for you, as a bonus they keep you feeling young, I sometimes browse my old KK Handbook and Aeromodeller Annuals, strangely, I still get the feeling that I'd much rather get on with a spot of model building, rather than do my homework!

Regards

Brian

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Roger 2 on 12/05/2013 15:06:39:

Hi Paul

I still have a 1970's Kiel Kraft Ivory Gull 100' glider with an OS 10 power pod, I have resprayed the fuselage once but the wings and engine are original. I only fly it in good conditions, it has a lot of presence and still turns heads.

Roger

Ivory Gull is an old Aeromodeller plan.

Never heard of a KK Focke-Wulf 190 for engine power, only the 3/6 rubber powered kit, There was the Veron FW 190 for C/L but that needed a much bigger engine than a 1.5

Started modelling in 53, never stopped, KK Phantom Mites, Stunt Queen, For F/F the Bandit, Outlaw and if you were really rich, the Jr 60. Later the KK Spectre which was so weak behind the wing that they have even been nown to snap in flight. A ply doubler cured that.

Then there were the Mercury kits, very good they were too. Matador for FF or RC. Tried to get that to fly with ECC Telecomander radio, never did get it to work but it flew F/F beautifully.

Oh yes, happy memories

[PatMc]

Posted by Peter Miller on 13/05/2013 08:51:32:

Posted by Roger 2 on 12/05/2013 15:06:39:

Hi Paul

I still have a 1970's Kiel Kraft Ivory Gull 100' glider with an OS 10 power pod, I have resprayed the fuselage once but the wings and engine are original. I only fly it in good conditions, it has a lot of presence and still turns heads.

Roger

Ivory Gull is an old Aeromodeller plan.

It was also the name of a KK glider. IIRC it was designed by Dick Edmonds who was also contracted to make the kits.

[Peter Miller]

What year was that? I certainly never remember seeing it.

[Paul Richardson]

Posted by Peter Miller on 13/05/2013 08:51:32:

Posted by Roger 2 on 12/05/2013 15:06:39:

Hi Paul

I still have a 1970's Kiel Kraft Ivory Gull 100' glider with an OS 10 power pod, I have resprayed the fuselage once but the wings and engine are original. I only fly it in good conditions, it has a lot of presence and still turns heads.

Roger

Ivory Gull is an old Aeromodeller plan.

Never heard of a KK Focke-Wulf 190 for engine power, only the 3/6 rubber powered kit, There was the Veron FW 190 for C/L but that needed a much bigger engine than a 1.5

Started modelling in 53, never stopped, KK Phantom Mites, Stunt Queen, For F/F the Bandit, Outlaw and if you were really rich, the Jr 60. Later the KK Spectre which was so weak behind the wing that they have even been nown to snap in flight. A ply doubler cured that.

Then there were the Mercury kits, very good they were too. Matador for FF or RC. Tried to get that to fly with ECC Telecomander radio, never did get it to work but it flew F/F beautifully.

Oh yes, happy memories

You are absolutely correct must be my age the Kiel Kraft model was I believe now to be a trainer with the merlin up front and the Fw 190 was a cambria kit like this one

**LINK**

apologies for my rusty memory

Paul

[kc]

The illustration of the Cadet shows 59 pence which is decimal currency which started in 1971 so obviously a 1971 or later advert. In 1955 the cadet cost about 3 shillings and 6 pence ( 17.5 pence) and the Jetex 50 to fit cost 10 shillings ( 50 pence ) if I remember correctly.

[Peter Miller]

Paul

It seems my memory is just as rusty. I find that there was a review of the KK Ivory Gull in 1975 Radio Modeller.

Unusual for KK to use an existing name for one of their kits.

[Djay]

Replikit sell most of the KK range, as well as Frog, Veron etc.

Darryl

[Roger 2]

Hi all

Just looking at the plans posted by PatMc of the Ivory Gull, really nice to see.

It shows a 0.49cc power pod, I made that and it would fly but if you got over 50ft high you were doing well.

I made a new pod and substituted an OS10 and it was transformed, the problem you then have is getting it down. It will not spin, it does a sort of diving helix and the speed builds up so you have to take care but 3/4 hr flights are possible with lift and it really responds to any thermal. Ok it isn't a high spec soarer but it is still a lot of fun to fly.

Roger

Ps nice to hear someone else lost a jettex cadet in the same way......well not nice but funny now, I had to save up for the plane and the motor ... imagine a school kid watching his pride and joy disappearing into the clouds.....and going home..... er Mam Iv'e lost mi plane.

[mal brewer]

Posted by Paul Richardson on 12/05/2013 12:52:09:

Just dropped in to say hello. Flew control line planes with my dad when I was 14 spent many an hour in the shed building planes with him in winter and flew a keil kraft ? fw 190 with an early OS max 1.5cc glow up

Paul

Hi Paul,

as Peter Millar says,there wasn't a Keil-Kraft Focke wolf 190 for power,only a rubber-powered '3/6d' (as they once were) kit. Peter says that the Veron FW 190 was too big for a 1.5cc engine he is quite correct,the model has a wingspan of about 27" ,but I'm wondering if you have got a little confused with the passage of time,and the engine was in fact an OS Max 15, which is of course 2.5cc,which would be an ideal match for the model...........................great memories coming back from all these early models........................Mal.

[Bob Cotsford]

my Veron Fw190 started off with an ED 3.46 Hunter and ended it's life with a rather quick McCoy 29 disk valve job. Nearly pulled me over once it got some speed up!