My progress is stalling...

[The Wright Stuff]

Pun intended!

I guess I am not alone in considering myself an 'intermediate' flyer. I can take an average low winger, set it up, get it in the air, trim it, and get it down again in one piece, and do the usual rolls, loops and stall turns with reasonable confidence. There's just this niggling worry in the back of my head that maybe I'm not always 100% in control. That for 5% of the time the plane is flying me!

I'm trying to improve my flying by being a bit more disciplined about it: getting the model to go where I want, keeping circuits rectangular and loops round, and practicing use of rudder, along with following a lot of other useful advice on this forum.

Here's the thing: these days my flying opportunities are increasingly limited and I'm frustrated that I just don't seem to be getting any better. I get out to the field about 3 or 4 times a month and worry that I'm getting rusty just as quickly as I'm improving, so any progress just cancels out. I've tried a simulator but it just doesn't entertain me for long - I get bored with it: the relaxation and fun I get from flying comes from being outdoors and taking my mind off other stuff in life: not from technical perfection.

In your experiences (I appreciate everyone is different) how often do people need to practice in order to maintain progress in their ability, and when is it a lost cause (i.e. when I accept that I'm just never going to get any better than I am now)?

Does anyone else have this experience, and do I try to visibly progress, or just not worry about it and enjoy my flying???

Cheers

[Tony Bennett]

tell me about it, i have not flown for 3 weekends now, every time i fly it feels like the first time again.

i would just try to enjoy your flying, unless you are trying to become a compititon winning stunt flyer then you will need to push your practice every time.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think you'll always improve if you practice - even if not very regularly - you'll just progress slower! Having said that there probably does come a point (from what you describe I don't think your at it) where further progress would require a higher level of activity. But that is for competition aerobatic pilots and the like.

Personally I aim to fly three times a week - but the weather doesn't always make that possible. There were definitely times over this last winter when I felt a bit "rusty". When that's the case I tend to just have a couple of "quiet" flights to start with - just to get my hand back in - before I try anything too clever!

I think you have exactly the right approach to improving in subjecting yourself to a bit of self-discipline. I see some flyers where they just aimlessly drift around the sky - and truth be known I think that a good proportion of the time they are "following the model" rather than the other way around! Now obviously its a free world and each should enjoy the hobby as they wish, but I don't think such an approach will improve their flying skills.

The trick is to evaluate each flight afterwards and be honest with yourself. And set yourself achievable targets - work on one aspect, double rolls or better loops etc.. Obviously you don't want to take the fun out of flying, and its nice to just have the odd blast around the sky, but if you keep at it with the structured practicing you will improve - maybe slowly but you will get there!

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 14/06/2013 13:20:14

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Well I think the main thing to remember is that you never stall by going too slowly so maybe your angle of attack is wrong.....

I think you are being a bit hard on yourself....like most things in life regular practice is needed to keep skills in good order or to improve them & the better you get the smaller the improvements & the harder they are to gain. Also no matter how hard you practice you need a certain amount of natural ability or talent to become really good & not everyone has this......no matter how much I practice the guitar I'm never going to be the second Eric Clapton.......probably not even the 13th or 14th Eric Clapton.....

Like you I don't get to fly as often as I would like (3 to 4 times a month???? Luxury!!! In my day it was 3-4 times a year...if we were lucky....) a young family & other commitments see to that. I am also my own worst enemy in that I take several models down to the field & fly them all during a session so I never get truly familiar with one airframe....I can fly all manouevers in the "B" test but my loops are egg shaped.....my rolls aren't axial....my landings occasionally run out of runway but you know what....? I really don't mind because I'm having fun. I long ago gave myself permission to just enjoy my flying rather than spend hours "practicing".....

Its a hobby.....have fun....if you're not having fun then something is wrong.....change it!!!

Here endeth the lesson....

[Nev]

Well I was going to start a thread with the title “I think I’ve forgotten how to fly !” but you have beaten me to it.

In my case I’m not getting the practice in, maybe 5 times this year. Each time the first flight is just steady circuits and getting used to the feel if it. Second flight is usually more enthusiastic and if I get time for a third its usually starting to come together ( not that I would class myself as anything more then an improver you understand ). What I need to do is string a few visits together, with a few different models.

But mainly I’m happy if I make a decent landing and don’t have to mend them when I get home. Nev.

[Alan Randall]

I long ago recognised that at the age of 60 I am never going to be Hanno Pretner. Whilst I have been modelling sine the age of about 8, I have had various lay offs over the years. I didn't start radio modelling seriously until I was in my late 30s, and I thought I was starting to make good progress, but all that was lost when I stopped in my early 40s when my first wife died. I started again in my late 40s but only played at it until my mid 50s when I rejoinined the model club and became serious again. I will never be more than an average flier who strives to improve but never wants to lose the simple enjoyment of flying. So I'm with Steve H, you need to have fun.

I do think it is good to have a model with which you are comfortable, and which is well sorted, that you can fly at a moments notice, but more importantly, that you can play your way in with after a lay-off due to weather or other commitments. You can then get your eye in before flying more challenging models in you fleet.

[kc]

All the comments so far seem correct but what about the model. Too many mediocre ARTF's perhaps? Flying a pure pattern model which will go exactly where you pointed it and if it didnt go there it was YOUR fault might be the answer. Plenty of designs from top competition pilots in the Plans Service ( OK most designs are several decades old but they fly just as well )

[Mark Stringer]

As with everything and to coin the phrase "practice makes perfect"

If you don't have the time then there is little to do about it - unless perhaps you have a few odd hours (or minutes) when you can play on a simulator.

I use Phoenix and although no simulator will ever be the real thing i do like the fact that you can use your own transmitter and the physics aren't bad so it does let you get that bit of practice in during bad weather - dark evenings - when ever you can grab the odd few minutes and use a huge range of models.

It is not the real thing but it is practice and perspective and you can try your hand with more advanced and less forgiving models at times when you can't fly for what ever reason.

Just a suggestion - hope it helps

[Tom Sharp]

it's called a plateau, a quite harmless mental condition.

[Phil 9]

Posted by Mark Stringer on 14/06/2013 17:23:32:

As with everything and to coin the phrase "practice makes perfect"

No it does not. practice make permanent (as they say in golf). If you repeat the same errors time and time again you will always be doing it wrong.

I am in the same position as the original post and would love to improve.

The best pilots in my club are the guys who have reached high standards in competition. But competition is not for me. The next best thing would be coaching but would probably not work as those willing to teach others are normally busy teaching new comers the basics any time at the field after that they want for their own flying.

I guess I will concentrate on becoming comfortable and proficient at the “B” cert schedule. But with the weather as it is and work commitments restricting flying to weekends I am lucky to fly twice a month at the moment.

[Greybeard]

The “just not worry and enjoy my flying” is the advice I’m following. Practice is important but, as has been pointed out, unless it is planned and structured it only re-enforces bad habits. I do try and file a mental flight plan but always seem to forget it just after take-off.

[Bearair]

I am a great believer in the idea that you do not actually start learning again until your 3rd or 4th flight of any session. So I will not start practicing anything until ive had a good "settling" in period. The first thing I would recommend for a pilot who wishes to improve is to practise flying straight and level along the landing strip(if your club allows this) pick 2 reference points at either end and attempt to fly over them. This will teach you that as with any manoeuvre its all about getting the model in the correct place and attitude before you start it. Do not fly too high! It is much harder to see exactly what the plane is doing if your flying a long way away and very high. I see people who except for landing never get the model low, consequently they never build their confidence level. When you happy doing this then practise touch and go's over and over again. Mark a spot on the runway and practise until you can get within a few feet every time When you can do that start doing a simple manoeuvre in the middle of your straight and level. Begin by being one mistake high but not so high you cannot see exactly what's happening. After that learn a turnaround manoeuvre such as a stall turn or reversal and do it each end of the straight and level. When you can start stringing lots of manoeuvres together you have well and truly cracked it! If your club will not allow flying along the strip, then find a quiet part of the sky and practise there, but do not always choose straight into wind, try crosswind as well, its much more difficult but you will learn lots more.

The above is the way I was taught many years ago and the way I have taught others who have asked me how to improve their flying. Other people may have different ways as good or better. It takes in my experience hard work and dedication to really master flying models, and you can expect to crash a few along the way. I have been practicing a ratchet roll now for 3 years and still do not get it right! Hope this helps

Roger

[Alan Wood]

You have the right attitude, this is key. You want to progress, many modellers are happy if it lands in the field anywhere and don't dicipline themselves to improve.

Try thinking manouvers through first, if you don't know what you should be doing before you take off your not likely to figure it out in flight. Then brake up the manouver into parts and practice it bit by bit.

The right aircraft makes a big difference to learning.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think that the "right model" aspect is a good one to consider. Basically I like to fly scale models - but I always ensure that I have at least one good "aerobat" in my hangar and in full flying order. This goes with me everytime I go flying. At the moment its an Sbach - but it could be and Edge, an Extra or Yak 55 for example. Generally these models fly very precisely - OK not as accurate as a pattern ship but for a scale buff like me they represent a good compromise.

This is the plane I practice with, its also the plane I warm up with. I totally agree with Bearair - when you first arrive at the field you need a couple of flights to "get your eye in" - especially if you have perhaps not flown for a couple of weeks - quite common with the recent weather we've been having!

So for me a typical flying session might be; a couple of warm up flights with the Sbach. Then a couple of flights where I focuss on something I want to practice - again the Sbach. Then the rest of the day is "playtime" with the Cub or the Chipmunk or whatever takes my fancy.

BEB

[Andy Blackburn]

I think it's a very individual thing, but;

• To stay current, I find I need to fly about 30 minutes/week.
• To improve significantly, 2 hours/week (with a flight plan) is better; I used to use one of the IMAC schedules, didn't matter hom much of a mess I made of it, it was fun and I improved every time.
• I also get bored with the sim (doesn't feel the same) but it's great for building muscle memory.
• I spent some days at one of the well-known training emporiums a few years ago, and learned vast amounts after every session.

[The Wright Stuff]

Thanks for all the advice and reassurance - I managed to get a couple of hours in yesterday evening and will keep on at it...

[Speedster]

Get a simulator, then you can practise all the sexy moves before you go to the real stuff.

A little practise then It will boost your flying right up the sky ..

Regards

S

[Devcon1]

It depends what your ambitions are, but reading your post at the moment you clearly want to be profficient and accurate in the key manoevures for good safe flying.

I think quantity of flying is less important than quality so I'd advise, for example, following the "A" Certificate routine on your own and then sometimes with feedback from a fellow club member.You needn't do this all the time as aimlessly flying around can be a good thing sometimes.

Don't ever think you won't get better because you will if you persevere.

Regards

John

[John Mc]

I have only ever been a Saturday morning flyer and I remember practiceing the B routine and not seeming to improve very much for a year. I got a flight sim - which I agree with many of you guys quickly becomes boreing but it does help you to groove the stick movements so they almost become mechanical. I think you should fly a Sim model with the same concentration you would fly a real one but always aim to push push yourself with any aerobatics ad avoid aimless flying about.

I have some very good clubmates who are Instructors and I still get them to watch my manouvers such as Stall turns and rolls etc to sort out any problems. I still force my-self to do 5 minutes on the flight sim when I turn on my PC to check Emails etc, as our flying weather has been so attrocious the last 3 years. The more you do thoughtfull practice the better you get. You only see the result after (say) a season

I would agree that without the banter and micky taking at the club field I would not fly models. So remember as priority number one to enjoy flying and don't beat yourself up too much. We all wish we were a bit better than we are. I wish I looked like Brad Pitt!