Time to sell the DX8 and move on??

[graeme jones]

I missed this thread when it started in August, but after a few years of 2.4 GHz use I'm surprised that the "faulty XYZ brand" argument hasn't been settled by now. Spektrum seems to come in for most of the criticism, but is it justified? They were first on the market (about 2 years before Futaba I believe) and initially seemed to be the answer to 35 MHz problems (pegboard control etc.). Some sets however did have "recalls" (as did some Futaba) and some users have reported problems as above. What exactly is/are the problem(s) though? Can they be reproduced? Generally, if an observed effect cannot be reproduced by other observers, the original observation was incorrect. Are we talking, for example, about RF link or data processing problems? Have the manufacturer or importer ever given a definitive answer on the question of faulty RF boards mentioned above? What proportion were faulty? Were the faults mechanical, electrical or data processing?

Speaking personally, I've found 2.4 GHz of whatever make to give a very solid RF link. Initially I resisted the change from 35 MHz which I had used since 1985 with only one unexplained crash. I "dipped my toes in the water" with a cheap Perkins Planet combo, then bought a Futaba 7C set (I had to as one of my clubs banned 35 MHz on "safety grounds". I've also flown and seen flown Hitec and Spektrum, both of which perform faultlessly (provided the batteries are charged and all of the installation is OK). My only worry is that 2.4 GHz is a very crowded part of the RF spectrum compared with 35 MHz (which I still use occasionally at one site with no problems). Everything from doorbells to WIFI seem to use it.

Does anyone know if the incidence of unexplained crashes has changed since the advent of 2.4?

Graeme

[John F]

I dare say with the advent of internet bad news and gossip also spreads much faster so someone's rant, because they smashed their plane into a car, goes on to become fact and as if by magic the "never trust Spektrum" is born.

It was the same with Kindles. (bear with me here) Advice was to avoid 'em like the plague as they always fail. Looking on the forums there are loads of folk disapointed with them. Having said that Amazon have sold over 12 million Kindles a month up to March this year! 40 people having a winge does not mean that the 0.0001% of customers are right!

Never let a good myth get in the way of facts.

[graeme jones]

Knew I'd forgotten something important! Did the OP sell the DX8 or has the issue with it been resolved?

Graeme

[chris larkins]

It's definately time to sell the DX8 and move on...........to a DX9!

I can only speak from experience but I have had about 4 years of flying on a DX6/DX8 and in the last couple of weeks with a DX9 and (touch wood) I have never had a single glitch and this is using a mixture of AR500 - AR6100 - AR7000 - AR8000 and HK Orange receivers with and without satellites, I am however always very careful about keeping the RX as far from the esc/motor or engine as possible and I make sure the aerial's are at 90 degress to each other and the rx battery is fully charged.........but then maybe I have just been lucky.

On a side note a club member (using Spektrum) crashed his plane whilst on final approach, instantly claiming it to be radio failure, however the flight was being filmed and on close inspection it was obvious to all that the model was slowed too much and tip-stalled, had it not been for the video he would have convinced himself and everyone else that it was radio failure..................................food for thought perhaps.

[Bill_B]

I'm a proper dyed in the wool tree huggin', sandal wearing, bearded Multiplex user (as some would say), but I have a DX7 too and wouldn't swap for anything. As they're small models I'm controlling with it, some of the installations mean that the aerial is actually sitting on the ESC wires and there's never been a hint of trouble over the many years of ownership.

As suggested, move onto the DX9!

[Rich too]

Posted by Vecchio Austriaco on 12/08/2013 10:27:19:

I know I make myself not very popular - but never leave out the possibility of a stall. You said you were at the landing approach - so normally not too fast. As I flew almost every day last week I noticed some gusts from Thursday on - if you catch one of those in the right moment and from the right direction you may enter in a stall - and than you would need a few meters to catch the plane again - which you don't have in a landing approach.

Correction - May be not as you say full throttle - did you check your fail save settings?

VA

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 12/08/2013 10:30:03

I lost my first two Extras this way - stalling. Happened very quickly too, straight down! I have to say I have been using Futaba for 35 years and I do not recall a single plane being lost through radio failure - plenty through pilot error!!

 

Edited By Rich2 on 13/11/2013 11:42:03

[Ben B]

The only problem I've had with my dx8 was due to a 3rd party receiver with a single aerial being shielded by a big aliminium spar in the wing causing loss of the rx signal whilst flying low and fast over the high voltage cable that runs under one bit of our field and total wipe-out of the plane. My own fault really! Should have used a rx with diversity and perhaps not flown in such a RF hostile place.

I now only buy proper Spektrum rx's from reputable companies. Best option IMHO is to buy the rx's taken out the TX combo's (as sold by places like Kings Lynn models)- pretty much 100% guarantee they're official that way!

It's wierd, if you read the forums you'ld believe that dx8s are rubbish and SC engines are horrible yet my dx8 and my SC46 are the nicest and most reliable tx and engine respectively!

[Romeo Whisky]

I've used Spektrum since before any of the other big names even had a 2.4Ghz system and I've never had so much as a glitch from it. Over 20 models, many hundreds of flights, all using a variety of different genuine Spektrum RX - and all electric. Which latter point makes me wonder .... As I recall above, the models you had problems with were i/c powered - which means you must have been using a separate receiver pack. But nowehere did I notice this stated as the possible cause of the problem. Could the RC pack be old? Not fully charged (NiMh packs are notorious for false peaking on peak-detection chargers)?

A friend recently sent a suspect RX back to Horizon for checking and the told him it was a fake import (though he bought it from a UK model shop) - there is another possibility!

Spektrum were the first into 2.4Ghz and have a massive userbase. The died-in-the-wool Futabaras (I know some) always blame any other brand of kit out of hand for control issues, but as stated above there are lots of much more likely places to look for the cause before blaming the Transmitter.

Edited By Romeo Whisky on 13/11/2013 12:12:21

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Rich too]

Posted by Romeo Whisky on 13/11/2013 12:11:29:

The died-in-the-wool Futabaras (I know some) always blame any other brand of kit out of hand for control issues, but as stated above there are lots of much more likely places to look for the cause before blaming the Transmitter.

Edited By Romeo Whisky on 13/11/2013 12:12:21

I stick with them as I have always used them and never had any problems - if I am honest I would love to try JR or Multiplex - but why change a (reliable) habit of a lifetime?!

[Paul Marsh]

Now,please to avoid this thread degenerating in a Spektrum hate frenzy. What rx's were you using?

Is it a DSm2 6200 with a blue label? Please check - these are fakes and I've got one, and found when I test it, goes into failsafe and unreliable.

I only use it for setting models up, if there is no spare rx in my box. Please check now...

Edited By Paul Marsh on 13/11/2013 15:20:18

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 12/08/2013 11:31:31:

I often wonder if one reason why Spekky seems (I emphasise "seems" ) to have more than its fair share of suspected problems is because its the "system of choice" for many beginners? So the user population has a lower average experience level than is the case with say Futaba or JR. This lower experience level might have two consequences:

1. Poorer installation quality
2. A lower level of flying skills/experience

The combination of the two leading to a higher "incident rate"

Just a thought.

BEB

PS Before anyone jumps on me I am not suggesting all Spektrum users fall into this catagory - nor am I suggesting it is the cause in any particular instance. I'm just saying that "on average" it might be true!

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 12/08/2013 11:32:34

not just beginners, same folk that blamed 35 mgz for crashes now blame spectrum.

use jr 9x 35 mgz never had a glitch. I guess im just lucky.

have crashed a few though, I blamed the dummy with the box.

[WolstonFlyer]

My DX6i had a new RF board installed free of charge, I was lucky that my pre-flight range check found the problem before my Wot4 foam-e bought the farm.

It has been completely fine since and in the last 6 months I have moved onto a DX8 which has also been perfect with no problems.

[Bandit]

I found most problems are maybe power to receiver or something else other than the radio equipment make or system. I know the receivers brown out at a certain voltage so might be worth checking the power supply and thinking about the load, I had an issue with an indoor plane that did that, was fine on the ground till the servos put extra load on the system.

I flew a while on 35meg and suffered glitches etc it was crazy but since going to 2.4ghz nothing but clean solid link to the plane/copter. It was really disappointing as I want a 35mhz set for fpv as it penetrates better than 2.4 but just cannot trust it with expensive cameras on the plane. I suspect I have a compatibility problem or something but I had the transmitter and receiver checked out so jury out on that one. Some guys at our club fly on 35mhz with no issues at all. I would be able to use 2.4ghz for the video link which would be better than 5.8ghz

I confess to having one issue with Spektrum which turned out to be a receiver which I think was a knock-off (not orange).

Maybe there is something wrong with the transmitter, might be worth getting it checked out I'm no expert but the DX8 Spektrum as a brand, in my humble opinion is not your problem.

I think there has been some really useful input in this topic, I will be checking aerials and trying to protect them.

Although DSM2 takes longer to re-connect I have never had an issue with DSM2, it could also be site related who knows.

So there is an explanation of my last sentence

So far DX8 is great for me cross fingers

[Shaunie]

I think it possible there was an undisclosed design/production/QA problem with the DX8 as my DX7 has been bulletproof so far.

The fake receiver problem is a nasty one as it is seen as a "Spektrum" problem not a "fake" problem. I've got an Orange Rx and that's been fine in a WOT4 foam-e.

I have been flying a Tiger trainer as a camera plane on 35MHz. I had one 10 minute flight where I counted at least 7 glitches on the footage, only one of which I noticed from the ground. Admittedly this was with a low end X-Tec TX and single conversion receiver.

The downside of 2.4GHz is that a lockout can take a couple of seconds for the receiver to resolve whereas a glitch on 35MHz only lasts until the start of the next clean frame which is typically tens of milliseconds. 2.4GHz is perfect until it doesn't work at all whereas 35MHz tends to suffer a more gradual degradation in the face of interference.

I've just converted the plane to 2.4GHz by using an Frsky hack module in a Futaba Challenger Tx I've loved and used for years. Not flown yet but I have high hopes.

Shaunie.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Shaunie on 13/11/2013 21:06:08:

The downside of 2.4GHz is that a lockout can take a couple of seconds for the receiver to resolve whereas a glitch on 35MHz only lasts until the start of the next clean frame which is typically tens of milliseconds. 2.4GHz is perfect until it doesn't work at all whereas 35MHz tends to suffer a more gradual degradation in the face of interference.

That's not really the case as I understand it though - the problem here is in the implementation of the software and not the frequency used. 35 MHz gear using PCM behaves in a similar manner, giving little indication of impending problems (maybe some increased latency might be noticeable) until the software cries time and drops into failsafe. The great advantage of more advanced modern systems is that it's now possible to monitor signal quality in real time - my radio feeds back the percentage of packets transmitted successfully to the receiver so giving early indications of any loss of link quality. It should certainly assist in any questions over radio link reliability - and remove a lot of excuses for pilot errors which I'm sure are the major cause of accidents!

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter Miller]

I had one of the first DX7s. never had a single problem with it.

[John F]

The thing is, if there were issues with Spektrum gear, it has been officially announced and a fix offered: **LINK** and **LINK**

Blaming Spektrum for all failures is unecessary and simply making inaccurate links to what could be a number of different reasons for any aircraft landing in a pile.

There are two dead certs about this whole thing. The first is that those who have had some kind of aircraft crash which is unexplained has blamed their gear. This time it was Spektrum. On another forum it is Futaba, etc, etc.

The second dead cert is that those who do have issues always post on forums and tell everyone. At every opportunity.

Those who don't, and have never had issues, hardly post but if they did I am sure that they would seriously outnumber those who do have issues.

Edited By John F on 14/11/2013 09:21:48

[Simon B]

I've been running Spektrum gear since I started in 2007 and had one problem with that dodgy batch of AR500s, but never had any other problems that weren't down to my own errors.

[Barryorbik]

I returned to this hobby after many years away with one of the first DX6i's. Shortly after purchase it had an issue with noisy gimbals due to the potentiometers but HH UK rapidly arranged to replace the pots and upgrade the trim actuators - all for free and with P&P covered and then they sent me an AR6100 by way of an apology.

On the back of this service when I needed an extra channel I bought a DX7 and still use along with my DX8 that I treated myself to early last year. Both of these tx's and their associated Spektrum receivers have proved extremely reliable and I have not had any problems related to the radio link.

Maybe I am in the minority but sometimes I feel the problems are related to poorly thought out installations inducing electrical noise into the receivers or dodgy connectors etc.

Barry

[Bandit]

I always blame myself for crashes, maybe harshly, but if I honestly look at the circumstances I find I perhaps suffered from flying too slow, not setting the failsafe, ignoring the fact the battery was a bit weak, using a switch from a plane that was binned years ago, not doing a range test, and the list can go on and on but blaming a piece of equipment ...no that's something I can alter.

Even a faulty ESC can be tested before flight, I normally run a full battery pack through as well as trying to load the servos.

Hardly ever do I see models tested for the failsafe, and what about switching back on to check the receiver re connects? Not to mention almost all modlers are after a cheap fix off e bay often turning out to be a fake or damaged second hand receiver.

Fact or no fact if the recommended tests are performed then surely faults with equipment will be highlighted to the pilot and his decision should be not to fly and that is my honest opinion after a fair few crashes.

Spektrum seem to be open and honest about issues and upgrades, perhaps this sort of discussion is a result of it, like a media frenzy