John Manning Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hi everyone, Thanks for the useful replies and hints. 2 things, first I had intended that the model would be fully set up and flown before I asked a better pilot to show it off at Greenacres. Secondly, I think it a reasonable challenge, go for the A cert before Greenacres then I can show it off myself. Currently I fly helis and small planes indoors. I do have problems with switching from rudder under right thumb (3 channel ARTF) and rudder under left thumb (4 channel proper build). The ailerons take over the right thumb position. In a large space the craft comes round very nicely on elevator/aileron. I usually forget the rudder which is fatal to the aircraft in the hall. There are 5 extra surfaces to fly into which can make for an interesting flight pattern. John M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 if you fly in a larger space the aileron is much more important than the rudder - well, this depends a bit on the model. if you have a lot of dihedral you can fly a slight bend also with the rudder, if you have less or no dihedral it is the aileron that does the job. There are a lot of planes which do not have a rudder, you fly with aileron and elevator. Most of the small EDF's are like this. I think flying helis is rather difficult - so you should get it with the fixed wing in a short time. Do you have a trainer model with aileron ? Electric would be the easiest, as you can forget all the engine set-up problems which can sometimes be frustrating. By the way - I made my A with that one. Not really a trainer, but a plane that does exactly what you tell it to do. Looking at this old picture from Italy I have to say that our field in Camparada was really close to the houses! - well it was closed after two years - probably it was too close VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 HI VA - thanks for the info on the paper - that's very helpful. I shall get myself some of that. Yes, go for it John - its all about practice really, the more you fly the easier it will seem! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Tweddle Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 When it's too windy for the Dawn Flyer. Va Thank's David Edited By David Tweddle on 10/01/2014 15:08:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What a pity. cannot open the link from my work-computer. Time to go home will take a while ... business trip as usual. VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Tweddle Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Please let me know if there is a problem VA. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 David, No, all fine with the video. Could see it now - on Brussels airport. It is just our company intranet - I can read the threads, but I cannot look at streaming videos. Still 2 hours waiting time until boarding Hate Friday meetings abroad. VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Smits Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hello all, I'm now putting all the electronic stuff in my Dawn Flyer and use these XT60 connectors, they have a very tight fit. To put the battery in the compartment ( with the model tuned upside down ) and connect the the battery to the ESC you are very close with hands e.g. fingers to the propellor. After a flight you have to turn the model upside down again, disconnect the battery from the ESC. At this moment the ESC is fully armed and now your hands and fingers come again very close to the propellor. Does anyone have an idee how to avoid getting wounded by an accidently, at hi speed turning propellor. Koen Edited By Koen Smits on 10/01/2014 20:20:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi, the XT60 connectors are fine, but suffer sometimes from a small burr from production. I you go over the edges with very fine abrasive paper, like 400 or finer they will fit very nicely. As it is just a burr there is no need in filing away lot of material. On the prop problem - you have to trust your radio system. Most of the accidents happen by people switching on the throttle by accident. there are 2 things which may help: electronically: program a throttle cut switch (as helicopters are using) wired: instal an interrupter on a place which you can easily reach while the plane is in normal position. I am sure you find several solutions for these interrupting connectors in the forum. Find here and here an example. I am sure there are many more in the forum. VA Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 12/01/2014 08:28:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Smits Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thanks VA for the links. The lower XT 60 connectors are for the ESC and the upper for the battery. As you can see it's very busy inhere, I had to drill a hole in the firewall to get the motorwires trough and have some free space left. In this male connector goes the interupt dummy ( arming and disarming) connector. For all who are also and will build the DFin the future, keep the tail as light as possible, to get the CG at the right spot i have to put 70 gramms of lead in the nose. probably this will be more because a plane can't fly without a pilot. Koen Edited By Koen Smits on 12/01/2014 13:52:07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Manning Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 These are just a couple of ideas about the dawn Flyer and it's CofG problems. I will start by saying that I shall have to wait for the plans to arrive as I have thrown the magazine out. What would the results be of lengthening the front of the fuselage by 10mm (basically the bit in Koen's picture)?. Looking at BEB's build blog, the tail feathers look a bit chunky and I would make the wood a bit thinner and hence save weight at the tail. Next job, find out what the power train is so I can order that! Regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Posted by kc on 07/01/2014 15:02:36: Building boards. No doubt the SLEC balsa boards are very good but they are very expensive. Plasterboard is cheap - maybe free as offcuts in a builders skip, but ask first- and expendable. I use screws into the plasterboard to hold down thick spars which is something you wouldn't want to do with an expensive last for a lifetime balsa board! Pins go into plasterboard much better than expected. Having several smaller boards enables work to continue on tailplanes etc whilst the wing etc dries. I photocopy or trace the wing or tailplane parts to save damaging the original plan and this also helps using seperate smaller boards. Wing boards must be dead flat and not warped ( twisted) again a reason for avoiding expensive balsa boards. Poor storage can easily warp any board just enough to ruin a wing. You could use plywood as a building board but its very difficult to get pins into it. Some people use cork tiles on top of ply or MDF so the pins penetrate. Dont use glass headed pins which shatter and penetrate your thumb, T pins or large plastic headed map pins are better. Once you have had a glass headed pin shatter and pierce your thumb you will understand why even normal dressmaker pins are better! For any pins you may need a pair of pliers to twist & remove them once the glue dries. Edited By kc on 07/01/2014 15:14:37 do you mount the plasterboard onto something to ensure it doesn't bend etc. also is there a size that's best as a building board. space is at a premium at the moment so was thinking of making a building table using some fold away legs and some kitchen worktop as the base. Then fixing plasterboard to the worktop for my work surface. This way I can store the workbench away when not in use etc. how do I ensure the surface is flat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well one way of ensuring its flat is don't fix it to a fold-away table top! Plasterboard makes a good building board - its already very flat (a consequence of how its made) and it takes pins very easily. But in itself its not very portable - it won't stand a lot of rough handling and bending load. If you really need to be able to "put it away" then I would suggest fixing it to something more solid that is also flat - Melamine sheet (the stuff they make shelves and flat-pack furniture from) is one possibility. Indeed my building board is a Melamine base with a double thickness layer of cork tiles stuck on it. Regarding size - well as big as you can within reason. I think you're planning on building a Dawn Flyer - yes? Well that doesn't need a very large board - 4' x 2' would do easily. But if you can fit bigger so much the bonus! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darran Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/01/2014 22:39:38: Well one way of ensuring its flat is don't fix it to a fold-away table top! Plasterboard makes a good building board - its already very flat (a consequence of how its made) and it takes pins very easily. But in itself its not very portable - it won't stand a lot of rough handling and bending load. If you really need to be able to "put it away" then I would suggest fixing it to something more solid that is also flat - Melamine sheet (the stuff they make shelves and flat-pack furniture from) is one possibility. Indeed my building board is a Melamine base with a double thickness layer of cork tiles stuck on it. Regarding size - well as big as you can within reason. I think you're planning on building a Dawn Flyer - yes? Well that doesn't need a very large board - 4' x 2' would do easily. But if you can fit bigger so much the bonus! BEB Was going to fix the plasterboard to a kitchen worktop which would give it a very rigid backbone. I was the. Going to attach some sturdy legs that fold down so that I could store the board when not in use. This would get me by until the summer when I can make some room in my outbuilding to create a small workshop for building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Sounds like a plan Darren! Go for it mate. The kitchen worktop as a base should be fine - I was thinking you were suggesting a flimsy table than that! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Manning Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 My hobby Store dispatched the plans this morning, Electrics arrived the other day, need to find out all the hiccups that BEB and others found. Then it's time to start. Flying training not to good as I have not set up the ESC on my indoor trainer and it did not fly well. It gave that feeling of not being well so I flew the 130 red bull heli instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Todd Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If getting the correct CG is causing a few people issue then extending the nose by 10-15mm would have no real issue on a design such as Dawn Flyer as far as flight performance and would be a very simple modification to make, just extend the fuselage sides effectively moving the firewall further forward with a suitably strong joint such as scarf and perhaps strengthening doubler. Linds Edited By Lindsay Todd on 18/01/2014 20:03:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Darran. Sorry for the delayed reply but I missed your comments from a week ago!I suggest a B&D Workmate or similar is the easiest foldaway support. However the plasterboard should be supported on an MDF etc baseboard and a horizontal beam -say 70mm deep - be screwed to the centre of the MDF. This beam is then gripped in the Workmate jaws. Then its secure but instantly removeable. Other sizes of board can be made, each should have a batten to be gripped in the jaws. A piece of worktop about 600mm square makes a good utility board for general cutting etc. This only needs a 30mm sq batten for gripping. A couple of extra battens the same thickness then go further out than the Workmate surface, these enable the worktop to sit flat on any other bench too. The idea is to have a building board of the right size which can be removed whilst the glue dries and another board used for other parts.So make your plasterboard just slightly larger than the wing or fus of this model, making bigger or smaller boards for other models and tailplanes. All this makes a neat foldaway workbench for indoors when it's cold and is used for the clean building work. Dusty work can then be done in the garage or shed, leaving the assembly and fiddly jobs done in the warm. You might raise the objection that the plan is large so a large worksurface is needed. I say either get a photocopy of the plan so you can cut it or just trace the essential outline of the wing onto tracing paper. Or with plasterboard you can draw straight onto the white surface if you want. How to ensure the surface is flat. A one metre aluminium straight edge helps, a longer one is better. Remember 3 lengths of any material if they all fit each other must be straight! However for this purpose just viewing the board low down along from end to end should enable you to see any dip or hump in the board. Also look for any warps - the ends should be parallel. A pair of 'winding strips' can be used to test for warp (lack of parallel of the ends) - just two long straight edges one each end,preferably one white one black which should accentuate the twist so you can see it - or prove it's not twisted.Edited By kc on 19/01/2014 00:30:23Edited By kc on 19/01/2014 00:32:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Manning Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Thanks, Lindsay. The plans have now arrived, they are much better quality than those in the magazine. It makes me wonder if Myhobbystore will do scaled plans. I would like a 66% plan of the Can-doo and creating one is proving a bit difficult for the printers in the village. I know that I could use my bus pass and go into Nottingham. It would be nice to buy scaled plans straight from the digital store at Myhobbystore. What do others think? One thing I have noticed is that the digital magazine does not include the plans! John M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Printing plans from the digital mag would need some proper software which allows the every day A4 printer to print pages which then could be glued together.... scale would be an issue. I think it is worth to by a plan or plan plus laser parts set - there are less possibilities to mess it up VA, common and cheap A4 printer owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Can I join the club? The Mini Jazz build is complete, and awaits the maiden. My other long term build, is at the covering stage so the bench is free. Now I have never built an electric powered plane so this will be a first for me. I am thinking along the lines of this set up. Motor. Speed Controller. LiPo`s. Servo`s and the like I am OK with. Is this a decent set up? Would you more experienced electric people change anything? If so I need to do it to a similar price!!! What prop size would I need? So many questions? Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Kev, that's the same motor & lipo I use on my DF, works fine. The esc will be fine also but you dont need such a big one. 25a should be plenty. It's not a plane that you are going to use screaming around at full throttle so you are not going to be stressing the esc. I have a 25a in mine and it must have 50 hours flying time by now without any problems. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Thanks Andrew, good to know I am on the right path. Can you tell me please what prop size you use? Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hi Kev, I'd agree with Andrew the ESC is slightly over spec - but,... with these cheaper ESC's sometimes the, er, "marketing" trumps the engineering if you know what I mean - ie their current ratings can be a bit "optimistic". If you were going for a top name brand I'd say 25A would be fine - with the cheaper stuff - personally - I'd go for about 30-35A to be "on the safe" side. Props - something like an 11x6 would be a good starting point, with 10x6 as an alternative. I know its a bit more expense - but a wattmeter (or access to a mate's!) - really is an essential bit of kit here. We can estimate that an 11x6 would be OK - but you can only know by measuring the power and more importantly the current at full chat. If the current turns out a bit high - back off to a 10x6. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Mine is running an 11 x 7. I usually use the apc e props but for the df I treated myself to a proper wooden prop. Looks the business. Will try and put a picture up. The plush esc range have a very good reputation, if you stick with those you shouldn't have a problem with quality. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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