RCM&E / Greenacres June 2014 fly-in - chat thread

[Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services]

There were a couple of incidents I felt uncomfortable with, the first was with me, again, not used to flying in company I elected to have a nice quiet flight after hours on Saturday evening, all was well, the 3ders didn't bother me, other than when my spotter called landing for me, it was acknowledged by the others, only for one of them (who did acknowledge) to continue buzzing and 3ding over the strip on my approach, keeping an eye on him and my model didn't make for the best landing in the world, but no damage done.

The 2nd was while spectating, a call was made for "on the strip", someone was retrieving an over turned model, again acknowledged (funnily enough by the same person above), only for him to come in and do a low level pass at head height whilst said person was still on the strip.

The person and model he was flying will remain nameless, but it didn't make for a comfortable flying experience for me and elected not to bother flying again.

All said and done though, it was a fantastic show and I will not let these incidents ruin for me, just a shame i could fly my other newly aquired model which I am still bonding with slowly.

Oh and I hasten to add it wasn't a youngster!

Edited By Dylan Reynolds LaserCraft Services on 25/06/2014 12:01:42

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Given the numbers that attended and flew I thought it went well. If you start giving slots to every different style and discipline you will lose some of the fun of it, and a lot of the flying time. Not to mention creating a nightmare for the Greenacres lads, something special.. give it a slot. What would I change ? strut your stuff beyond the take off, landing area, whatever you fly.

John

[Erfolg]

Reading Johns post, I have to agree with his general drift and thoughts.

In my opinion, the first aspect that needs to be decided is the purpose of the event, I guess by the RCM&E staff. Again my opinion it is an "Opportunity for ordinary modellers to get together to both fly and chat"

If this were to be the general idea, aspects as the large scale models, dawn patrol , become a add on, receiving slots. Again an opinion, the slots should be minimal, not the norm.

Again picking up on the thoughts and opinions of others, 3d flying, along the landing strip, is not acceptable in a mixed flying session.

I may be in a club of 1, in having reservations of obviously very big and or very fast models, mixed in with ordinary pilots, flying there mixed performance models, as they do not integrate well.

I personally have no trouble with the how we were arranged by the Greenacres flight line personnel, as they guided me into the box, to a suitable position every time, in a really helpful manner.

Edited By Erfolg on 25/06/2014 12:35:40

Edited By Erfolg on 25/06/2014 12:38:19

[Lee Smalley]

i can't believe some of the comments on here! this type of flying is not suitable ....that type of flying, what a load! so was the guy flying what amounted to a kite along the strip also to be prevented from flying, or how about the auto gyros also hovering over the patch for extended periods, or even the single channel radio assist that barely struggled to make any forward movement against the wind....in fact why don't we make the flies and midges that were constantly buzzing the strip have their own slot as well while we are at it.

i have no love for 3D i am rubbish at it... but it was no more of an inconvenience than any other type of flying that went on that day, the longest wait i had was waiting for foamies with massive batteries in to land so i could have a flight with my jet, but thats just tough, that was the way it is

and for your information 3D has to be done close as it requires stupidly quick reactions to what the aircraft is doing, to do it far out means you could never spot the small corrections required.

at the end of the day guys 3D flying was a very small proportion of the flying that went on that weekend the very vast majority was standard left ...right ... crash... type flying .... you can't have it all guys!

finally a massive thanks to the greenacres guys for all their hard work and commitment... guys i doff my cap!!

[Richard Harris]

 

I had a really good weekend and flew as much as I could. At one point I was flying my fast canard in amongst the Dawn Patrol and didn't even give it a second thought. Ian and the boys were communicating with me, I was aware where they were and vice versa. It is a fly-in and not a show where you get the chance to fly along side the likes of Ian Redshaw/Andrew Ellison  etc, if you don't like to be flying in and around what is in the air at that particular time then simply just wait, it is no big deal.

We have to be thankful that there are clubs like Greenacres who are prepared to organise such a good fly-in, not moan about them.

 

The stewards did a Sterling job and are a good bunch of lads, yes there were the odd one or two who became a bit in patient with waiting but all in all it ran pretty good I thought.

 

Well done boys!

 

Rich

 

Edited By Richard Harris on 25/06/2014 14:09:26

[Lee Smalley]

Well said you pesky auto gyro scumbag you

[Martyn K]

Have to agree with Lee. This was a superb well organised weekend - the best ever.. I flew as frequently as I wanted to and only 2 inconveniences when I lost my place in the queue when my little OS25 died after oiling up after a longish tick over. No big deal.

I loved it, I love the variety of models, I love to see the experts (in fact everyone) flying and I like to think that every year I am a bit better than previous years. When I can't or don't want to fly, I like to chat - just as everyone else seems to.

Please don't change the format or make it too regimented - I agree there needs to be one or two special slots but these should be the exception.

My 2d worth

Martyn

[Andy Muckley]

HI Lee and Richard i wish everyone had the same attitude as you guy's. i didn't get to fly after friday night as was too busy and though i could have flown later when it all calmed down a bit , i had a few beer's and enjoyed watching everyone else.

As for the 3D Guy's i love it , cant do it , but love it , i also love the big scale stuff too, it's all flying.

[Andy Muckley]

In reply to Andy Ellison and 3D flying, it would be nice to see his lad and friend who was with them ( sorry don't know names) do a slot as they were both brilliant at it and if a slot were given we may appriciate this type of flying more. We cannot discriminate one type of flying to another

[Andy Muckley]

As Lee Smalley comments on not suitable flying styles, do we stop glider tug's holding everyone up while they prepare to take off and hogg the strip?

[Erfolg]

I can see that the tone is drifting into one where there is a degree of polarisation taking pace.

We all seem to enjoy the event immensely, some have concerns, where the undertone is one of safety and others who have no issues at all.

For my part, I see the event as one that is targeted at the everyday modeller, the ones who buy RCM&E and probably other covers. The abilities are many, as are the skill levels. May be that is not what the organisers see, but that is why i go.

Many years back I did compete in the BARCS league, and for one do not want anything approaching a competitive atmosphere. If I did, I would enter an appropriate competition. Yes, thy are fun, although the atmosphere is competitive, there is a camaraderie, though not a fun event, we all want to win.

To some extent, if I want to see preponderantly outstanding models, I would go to events like Weston Park or the now defunct Woodvale. Yes I want to see some, just not to be the dominant theme.

It is the easy mixing of all groups of modellers I enjoy. I do not rivet count, but like the models, neither do I fly or build unconventional models but like them, I do build pretty ordinary models and yes, I do like seeing others similar models, as they are not ordinary to there builders and flyers.

I may not be a hot shot flyer, most defiantly not, nor do I see myself and other similar flyers as second class citizens, who should go to the back of the pecking order. In fact I see this as my type of event. Although not the worlds best modeller or flyer, I have beaten some of the best in competiiton, in the past, some would say when I got lucky. I felt I had every right to stand on that launch line, and still retain that feeling for different reasons when at Greenacres as i assume many fellow flyers feel, because I feel this is Joe Bloggs event.not one where I should be expected to stand aside for a reputation.

Repeating myself I see Greenacres as an event for ordinary flyers with ordinary models to get together, where the outstanding models and flyers are there as highlights, not to dominate.

Provocative stuff I know, yet others have put there view forward with equal passion.

[reg shaw]

Posted by Andy Muckley on 25/06/2014 16:51:06:

As Lee Smalley comments on not suitable flying styles, do we stop glider tug's holding everyone up while they prepare to take off and hogg the strip?

Not at all, but they should at least stand and fly from the same pilots box as the mortals!!

My take on types etc is that communication, consideration and spotters are the key, anything can be flown with anything as long as all parties are aware of what is going on, but the consideration bit would mean that certain things wouldn't be flown with certain other things

Ian.

[reg shaw]

So Erfolg, you say the event is for you and not for me because my models have flown at Weston Park? I'm as ordinary as the next bloke and love the fly in mentality too, its all toy planes and they all have rights to be there and be flown whatever they are. The pleasure from flying a model at shows is a different kind of pleasure to that I get flying the very same model at my club or at a fly in.

Ian.

[Lee Smalley]

Absolutely bang on Ian, i would not care who it was (and i like Simon C) stand in pilots box or don't fly i am sure whoever it was did not do it on purpose and if a quiet word was made i am sure he/she would have no problem with standing with the riff raff, i was not aware that anyone stood aside for a reputation i flew happily along with such luminaries as Andy E, D Ashby and young and old Liam, none had a problem just keep talking and taking the mickey, loads of fun, i personally only came across one person who i considered to be arrogant and inconsiderate, and considering the amount of fliers actually there thats really good going, i am quite sad i never got to fly with that Ian Redshaw bloke but im not sure a jet and HP42 go together that well and besides i have heard he is a nutter

[Andy Muckley]

Ian Reg Shaw is a gentleman and a scholar and will do his best to help people when he can he is not quite bonkers, my wife is though, Ian's met her, she's nut's

[Morgan Goule]

Too right andy She's Abit nuts & r u going down tonight?

[Erfolg]

Now Reg you know I am not saying because you have flown in exhibition at Weston Park that your model should not be flown at Greenacres. I am saying your model is just one of many, however remarkable. In essence the event in my opinion is not just for you and similar models, representing the extremes of what can be modelled and flown.

I am suggesting that in my opinion the reason so many every day modellers go the RCM&E Greenacres event is to fly with similar like minded people. Yes they do want to see some remarkable models, but that is not the principle reason i go, it is to fly in a friendly, safe atmospere with my peers.

Indeed, your HP is one of the few that even my wife noted.

[TIM ANGELL]

Ian's quite right, any mid-air is regrettable but usually it's just bad luck ,and you accept the risk.However with some models it's more than regrettable it's unthinkable.Imagine how you would feel if your foamie or Wot 4 caused the loss of the Sea Fury ,the 504 or the HP. amonst others The only thing worse would be to cause an injury to someone,which is why I wouldn't dream of flying with them,unless it was agreed and planned beforehand.Theres no getting away from it models with drastically different speeds and flying styles dont mix well.I dont know what the answer is but more Consideration,Communication,Common sense would help

Tim

[Andy Muckley]

Hi Morgan, no soz can't make tonight

[Morgan Goule]

Ok Andy

[Slopetrashuk]

Just a note on the glider tugging. i took my tug because i was asked too and had plans to fly around nicely with the Minimoa and drag a few mates aloft. In the event, I always felt in the way with the glider tug and faffing about on the runway was becoming protracted. There were just too many pilots to slip these flights in unnoticed.

As a consequence on Sunday I left the glider tug in the trailer and just joined in with everything else flying my Decathlon and Stolp Starlet. It was easy to pick a slot and wait your turn while the Decathlon ticked over slowly by the ready box indicating my intent.

I would suggest that if it is so busy in the future, glider fliers opt out until the line is much quieter or there is a glider towing slot. I'm sure in August the field will be somewhat quieter and glider towing might be easier to accommodate but i don't think i'll be bothering with it at Greenacres again at the RCM&E do. This is not a moan it is out of consideration for other users. The runway is no place to be hanging around with so many models in the air.

Just one other note. I did have a little giggle to myself when Ian was asking to fly Helena and the marshal's wanted him to wait until everybody had landed! What he meant was he wanted to fly with everyone who was already up! It was a sort of 'civilian' slot if you like. He asked the other pilots. Nobody minded and we all swapped circuits to his preferred take off direction. He did however decline the loop I called when we were all in formation. He's not that good a show pilot then after all!

Andy Ellison

[simon burch]

I agree with not going into slots, but it wouldn't hurt for a few i.e big models (not one at a time though) and the 3D guys. I can't complain, I had three flights with my jet on Saturday and the first was on my own, and the second pretty much. The third flight was risky, but I took off with other models knowing the risk and just stayed high....hoping to stay out of everyones way.

I did feel that the circuit was not being maintained on my last flight, but that could have been due to the switching winds or the flight line guys just getting overwhelmed. I guess I'm just used to flying the jet with a spotter (you have to do this at all jet meets......your spotter is your extra set of eyes for the things you just can't see going on). I just couldn't keep track of where everyone was, so I came in and packed her away.

I think it would be good to have a few 3D slots thrown in. That type of flying just does not lend itself to follwing a circuit so will always be an argument point. The talent is amazing, but even though I like 3D, I don't like someone doing it right in front of me, when I can't give them my full intention. Everyone makes mistake, has failures, so I think people should back away from the flight line, and just let the boy's go for it.

Personally I would love to fly my jet with that big HP42 model of Ian's, I think I could get slow enough to come across the flight line in formation, what a fab picture and mix of sounds. Might try and sneak into the Dawn patrol next year, put a few roundels on it and some big spoked wheels.....no one will notice??

I've been on the flight line before, and it is a tough job made even tougher by watching everyone else doing what you want to do......fly !!. You guys did a great job.

A great event. Already thinking about what I can being next year !!

Simon

Edited By simon burch on 25/06/2014 18:58:12

[Andy Muckley]

Good on ya Simon, Hey Andy you better bring your tug August it's diversity we need not same old same old

[Paul Marsh]

I was surprised that there were mid-airs that weekend(from what I saw, except a couple of "mid-grounds". Was a confusing scenario, which the wind kept changing from cross wind to slightly cross wind in the other direction, and back again, sometimes in one flight time.

All pilots were skilled, I reckon, some do like showing off, but at least we managed to mingle different models in one slot and keep six in the air at once for two days, that is some busy airspace!

[Tony Richardson]

Gotta say the pics on the alternate thread look like everybody had a great time.

I had hoped to make it over to the UK this summer for just that event, would have been interesting to talk to other members of these forums and get a different perspective on this hobby of ours, maybe next year, by that time I should have Tims Citabria pro rebuilt ( don't even ask ) this time I plan to make it in such a manner that it can be taken apart enough for long air journeys .

 

I noticed a little whinging and whining about the 3D guys, not being a herky jerky kind of guy I do not participate myself, that said it is a very skilled discipline and is to be admired and is becoming more and more popular with younger participants of our hobby, I am sure the guys at greenacres will have addressed the problems percieved or otherwise by next year.   I have to agree with Simon a spotter is a must even if only to blow in your ear and calm those first flight of the day nerves. At our club charity air show spotters are mandatory and really do assist by telling you where the other aircraft are in relation to your own, especially when trying to form up for a formation fly by, anyway it looks as though all had a good time assisted by good weather, really what more could you ask, hope to see some/all of you next year.

 

Tony...

Edited By Tony Richardson on 30/06/2014 01:06:01