Why do I support my LMS

[Mogs]

Posted by Rich2 on 08/01/2014 06:53:26:

Posted by Mogs on 07/01/2014 13:18:14:

I’m in total agreement with BEB on this, the decline of the LMS is a very sad affair. Use it or lose it.

I'm not going to use it for the sake of it just to give the owner a living wage.

If "giving the owner a living wage" were the only factor then I would would agree with you.
Provided the cost of the item is comparible with the price available on-line plus P&P plus a tiny amount
for good, friendly, knowlegdeable service, a joke and a smile included, then I prefer my LMS.

The one thing that I find particularly rude (and I have witnessed it) is the customer who will ask
to see an item, gives it a thorough inspection, hands it to the shopkeeper,
stating I can get it cheaper online and leave.

[Rich too]

Posted by Mogs on 08/01/2014 08:34:24:

Posted by Rich2 on 08/01/2014 06:53:26:

Posted by Mogs on 07/01/2014 13:18:14:

I’m in total agreement with BEB on this, the decline of the LMS is a very sad affair. Use it or lose it.

I'm not going to use it for the sake of it just to give the owner a living wage.

If "giving the owner a living wage" were the only factor then I would would agree with you.
Provided the cost of the item is comparible with the price available on-line plus P&P plus a tiny amount
for good, friendly, knowlegdeable service, a joke and a smile included, then I prefer my LMS.

The one thing that I find particularly rude (and I have witnessed it) is the customer who will ask
to see an item, gives it a thorough inspection, hands it to the shopkeeper,
stating I can get it cheaper online and leave.

I agree, and I use my local shops happily, if I get decent service - even in the knowledge that I am paying slightly more

[Prop Nut]

That's a great post Tim. Full marks for dedication to the hobby. For many years I worked for a US corporation with its European HQ in Mechelen, Belgium, and used to spend two days each fortnight there. We, in the UK, also hosted regular visits from our Belgian and other European counterparts. The Belgians used to complain about the quality of their own coffee, and were always very complimentary about the coffee and tea we served them! Like many things, including model shops, it's possible to experience good and bad anywhere in the world.

[Dai Fledermaus]

In the 1960s a visit to Cardiff, for me, wasn't complete without a visit to the Bud Morgan model shop. What a magical place that was. After Buds' death it all went a bit down hill and in recent years it was taken over by Antics, Not so good now unless you're interested in plastic kits and model railways.

[Michael Wright]

Crosstown tee, don't worry mate, no offense taken!...I know what you mean now, in fact I travel from Suffolk to Brentford Greater London to use my favorite model shop, not as far as you are traveling but still a 200 mile round trip!

What I am really trying to get across in my posts is that I am happy to pay more, wait for stuff to be ordered in for me, but I also expect to be treated politely by the staff, agreed, I don't expect tea and cakes but a smile and 'hello' would be welcome. In this economic climate as a shop owner, if your customers are 'geeky' or a little unusual then said shop owner needs to remain professional and maintain politeness.

regards

mike

[Barrie Dav 2]

When, from time to time I've been to the UK I've used a LMS on the south coast. I've looked on their website and made a long list from the stuff advertised and visited the shop to make the necessary purchases. Ten times out of ten a whole lot of the stuff was 'out of stock'. When I said that it was listed as in stock on their website I was informed that they couldn't keep the thing up to date as they didn't have the time. There was generally an empty shop when I used to make my visits. Any wonder?

Decent retailers usually find the time to update their data. This is after all, their shop window. Nowadays I find that most of the well known online retailers are excellent, both with advice,service and supply of goods. However it's good to see that there are some shops out there that have praise on this forum so good luck to them.

In defence of some of model shops, they often have to put up with a lot of time-wasters so it's not all wine and roses.

[Prop Nut]

Barrie, it's an interesting point about websites being the shop's window, which is why I buy mostly online but from a handful of retailers. They are the ones who do most things efficiently including keeping their stock in real-time, so you know if you order, they have it and will despatch same day (within reason). I also like being told when stock is expected, so I can decide to wait or look elsewhere. I've lost count of the times I used to order online only to be told, maybe two days later, that it's actually out of stock. Just recently, I was trying to find a Tx that is no longer made and found it advertised at a shop I've never used before. I emailed to ask if they did, in fact, have it and was assured they did. Having placed an online order, next day they rang to say they'd had no stock for months. I could have made a 100 mile trip to find that out!

I also laugh at the shop that sells on Ebay, justifying their eye-watering P&P by saying that packers want wages too. It seems lost on them that the packer is just a sales assistant who's serving online customers, rather than over the counter. Next they'll be saying that shop customers should be prepared to pay for someone's time to take their money and put the goods in a bag.

I also agree that running an LMS is not easy; serving Joe Public never is, but it can be done and done well by many.

[Electriflier]

How refreshing to read a sensible discussion about the pros and cons of the LMS. I have followed this and many other similar threads and up until now have never participated for various reasons. The main reason I suppose is that i empathise with some, agree and disagree with others and being a LMS proprietor, tend only to discuss this subject face-to-face with customers. I have always been careful when on this site to keep my business to one side and partake in the threads for non-commercial use only. Being a keen builder, regularly visit this site to read the wealth of useful information provided by its contributors. This time however, I feel it important to put the side of the LMS forward for you to consider and hopefully understand. I have read comments such as 'lack of enthusiasm' and disinterested business owners not keeping up with websites etc and I do agree, this does happen and frustrates the hell out of me. So much so that these negative points of view are almost the foundation of our business plan.
Where can we improve? how can we avoid disappointing customers? How can we compete with grey imports? How can we react to the threat to our business that is the Far East? How can we improve our service? Regularly asking ourselves these questions and trying to be passionate about how we address them has carried us through our first 10 years in business as a model shop.
' how do you make a small fortune......' Is a phrase often heard in this business and without asking you to cry in your coffee, is basically true bearing in mind that the sector we are in is classed as dealing in 'non-essential' goods and so therefore custom has dropped back for more than one reason. The current economic climate and indeed since around late 2008 has meant not everyone has been in a position to afford non-essential items and modelling for some, I know, has had to take a back seat - It's understandable.
I must take this opportunity to thank Crosstown tee for his posting and also others on here who obviously frequent the shop. Hopefully, as you can testify, we do try to welcome each visitor and spend time wherever and whenever we can. At the end of the day, aside from it being polite, how nice is it to be able to discuss this subject day-in, day-out? I'm blessed really, we really do have some great customers! Interesting, funny, dry, young, old, male, female, generous and ok, can't lie, some are grumpy but hey, I can get that way too....... Can't we all?
From a LMS v internet point of view, our policy is simple. We don't sell via the internet! Maybe hard to believe these days but your comments about how disappointed you are left feeling when you order from a company who clearly didn't have the item in in the first place are exactly one of the reasons for not doing so. In our first 3 years trading, and coming from an IT background, it seemed the only natural way to operate so as to keep up with our 'competitors', we had over 3500 items listed on our website. The shop's stock system was checked daily and stock numbers updated daily to the web. Due to this 1 day time-lag between actual stock levels and yesterday's stock levels, items could 'oversell' and go out of stock without us knowing until the end of the trading day. Also, prices change and the upkeep of dynamic information like this started to take the enjoyment out of what, at the end of the day, should be a very enjoyable business. I was tied to the PC in the office for up to 4 hours a day. Brave or mad, the decision to cease internet trading was taken. We did not enjoy the box-shifting, anonymous trading that this side of the business involved and so our business once again became a good old fashioned model shop.
Yes we have a website but you'll only find generic modelling help and information on there not an e-commerce site. Yes, we have a Facebook page as well where we often announce new products but more than often, you'll find banter between customers lol. We even have our own flying club where we find ourselves socialising with our customers on a Sunday and most evenings during the summer weeks - great bunch of people!.

We'll never get rich in a monetary sense in this business but believe me, doing what we do with the people we're lucky enough to call customers and friends, the rewards are not always measured in £-S-d. So long as we are able to pay our way and continue to provide a service in our area, we'll carry on doing so with your support.
Cheers
Roy

[Martyn K]

Nicely put Roy

My LMS gets most of my hobby spending money because its Local and its a Model Shop and invariable I will almost always buy more than I intended, because while I am browsing I'll have another good idea.

I probably wouldn't bother doing this if I had to mail order everything and my wife would go berserk with all the parcels arriving.. At least I can choose when to introduce the latest goodies to the shed when the coast is mainly clear.

Seriously though, personal service is very important to me, I can check on odd material sizes that may be out of stock - but can be ordered especially for me, I can check the grade of wood that I really want to buy, I can check the contents of a kit to make sure that it is not full of rubbish. I can walk around with a transmitter for half an hour and check that it fits my hands and I am not just buying bling.

All these things add value to the experience that cannot be equated to pounds and pence. So yes I am happy to pay a premium (small) and help keep my LMS in business.

To me it is a rare and therefore valuable commodity.

Martyn

[ken anderson.]

well put over from me Roy and a thumbs up for the LMS .....

ken Anderson ne..1 ........LMS dept.

[Michael Wright]

Roy, thanks for putting fingers to the key board! you and your shop sound like just the place that most of us would like to visit, it is obvious that you understand customer service because people such as "Crosstown Tee" are willing to travel large distances for your service.

Looking through this thread again it appears that a large group of people are reaching for the 'net because a significant number of shop owners don't understand that the important thing is 'service, service, service!'

Although I have not visited your shop I feel that if I was in your area I certainly would. Thank you for being there and making a difference.

Regards

mike

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

a refreshing read also Roy

the folks in your area, are in safe hands

[Erfolg]

I am not an automatic fan of the LMS, although it is or would be nice to have one near. My LMS is the same as BEB, not that it matters.

Why have i a lack of enthusiasm? It is one born out of my perception of reality. For most MS it is a financial impossibility to hold the stock of many major on line traders. They do just cannot get the footfall never mind the sales. It also is a good part of the reason as to why they are on a comparative basis so expensive.

Why are the staff so poor at customer relations? In many cases it will be the owner, that is the staff he or she decides to hire and his inability to train a and mentor his staff. Remember this is not Tesco et all, with training programme, staff assessedments etc. So does this mean that Webbies is an accident, an accident? I suspect not, it is the result of a family who are all natural retailers, generally interested in modelling, who then hire staff in their own image, naturally seeking to be helpful, not needing the training programme, and so on.

If my assessment is correct, the future of the LMS, will continue to be in danger, particularly with the overhead issues, relatively slow turn over of stock, which is often borrowed money, which may be cheap today, although this will change, with yet another nail driven into the coffin. That is unless there are some fundamental changes that are favourable to on the. High street fffretailers.

[Kevin Wilson]

I am now kicking myself as I drove right past the shop in Doncaster coming back from a family function.

Why did I not call in?

I presumed that it would be the same as a lot of other model shops that I have visited. Unenthusiastic staff, with a limited range of goods and no marked prices. Then being made to feel like a nuisance/skinflint when I am not prepared to pay MRP.

Edited By Kevin Wilson on 08/01/2014 23:04:50

[Rich too]

Hi Roy,

Thanks for sharing, and that must have been a huge decision not to sell on line - a huge business decision. And that's the point, running a lms is a business, not a hobby, and perhaps some shop owners just don't cut it.

Perhaps, if my lms had done the same I would still be using them today, although their over the counter service is not much better (in my experience)....

 

Rich

ps this subject is done to death, and I think that's enough free advice for shop owners!!

 

Edited By Rich2 on 09/01/2014 06:53:52

Edited By Rich2 on 09/01/2014 06:55:53

[ken anderson.]

once again 3 cheers for our LMS(gladstons/north shields)...straight in got what i needed for my latest project today......also thumbs up for kings lynn models and dumfries models.....long live the model shop.

 

ken anderson...ne...1.......lms dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 27/08/2015 16:35:19

[Foxfan]

I can't give a thumbs up to any shop which doesn't open on a Saturday!

When I worked in a model shop as a teenager, I prided myself on giving top service. Everyone was sir or madam and attended to straight away. We were all model fans ourselves and the shop was always packed.

I tried to give the same service when I ran my Dad's Radio &TV shop in Devon. It costs nothing and I think good service is a workplace art, easily achieved with a little self respect and effort. I once sold a new Roberts radio to an Irishman who only wanted a plug! I also sold a huge Scalextric set to a Dad who only came in for a Minic Motorway Jag. in the model shop.

I was in SLEC today and got superb friendly, helpful service. I didn't go in the shop nearby, because I didn't want anything they sold, but next time I might go in there too. I tend to make more than I buy, so SLEC was an Alladin's cave for me.

It was a nice drive, but a bit too far away for small purchases.

MrTin

[ben goodfellow 1]

my local wanted 499 for a 14sg . 429 a common price ..why would i bother paying 70 pound more.....

[Geoff S]

Posted by Foxfan on 27/08/2015 20:05:39:

I can't give a thumbs up to any shop which doesn't open on a Saturday!

When I worked in a model shop as a teenager, I prided myself on giving top service. Everyone was sir or madam and attended to straight away. We were all model fans ourselves and the shop was always packed.

I tried to give the same service when I ran my Dad's Radio &TV shop in Devon. It costs nothing and I think good service is a workplace art, easily achieved with a little self respect and effort. I once sold a new Roberts radio to an Irishman who only wanted a plug! I also sold a huge Scalextric set to a Dad who only came in for a Minic Motorway Jag. in the model shop.

I was in SLEC today and got superb friendly, helpful service. I didn't go in the shop nearby, because I didn't want anything they sold, but next time I might go in there too. I tend to make more than I buy, so SLEC was an Alladin's cave for me.

It was a nice drive, but a bit too far away for small purchases.

MrTin

I was brought up living behind and over the family Radio and TV shop (plus lots of other stuff like clocks, watches, jewelery, shotguns/ammo, airguns ditto, photographic and white goods). A lot of the things were part of dad's hobbies (like HiFi before it was trendy) and I took pride in customer service because it was fun. I served in the shop probably from the age of 10 or 11.

Unfortunately there was no future for a small family run TV business and it was losing money even before dad retired back in the 1970s. Reality hit that business very early when Comet started up selling from pile 'em high sell 'em cheap goods. Once electronic goods became super reliable then customers weren't (and aren't) about having a relaible supplier who would turn out even on Christmas Day to repair their TV. I'm afriad LMS are feeling the same draught that we did 40 years ago.

There are no LMS anywhere near me now. I used to patronise several but thye're all gone so it's mail order/internet based shopping now and some at the odd show I attend.

Geoff

[simon barr]

DPosted by ken anderson. on 27/08/2015 16:34:46:

once again 3 cheers for our LMS(gladstons/north shields)...straight in got what i needed for my latest project today......also thumbs up for kings lynn models and dumfries models.....long live the model shop.

 

ken anderson...ne...1.......lms dept.

 

Post deleted as it wouldn't edit correctly.

 

Edited By simon barr on 28/08/2015 12:33:54

[ken anderson.]

well time stands still for no one....it is with great regret i must report the demise of a shop and staff i have sung the praises of on many an occasion on this forum.......Gladstons in north shields...up here in the north east.the reason i fear is recently they had a visit from burglars(i use that term loosely...if i printed what i think-i would be thrown off the forum)anyway sadly another nail in the coffin for local flyers.......same as what is happening nationwide........best wishes to all the staff who are going to find themselves now on the jobs market.....and a massive thankyou from me....

ken anderson...ne....1 ...... LMS dept.

[Pete B]

That's very sad to hear, Ken - the LMS has a difficult-enough job today as it is without being tipped over the edge.....

Pete

[PatMc]

A couple of weeks ago, when Ken was away sampling the Maltese lemonade, I posted the news that they were closing on 2nd April. According to Cameron it was because the owner had decided to retire, nothing was mentioned about a burglary.

[ken anderson.]

yes really bad news for the regular customers pete......Pat they were broke into and without a doubt i would imagine that was one of the main deciding factor's......they have owned the building since way back when and the lad running it now on behalf of the rest of the family must have had enough etc....

 

ken anderson...ne...1..... LMS dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 04/04/2016 08:00:12

[Rich too]

An update from my previous posts. I was searching the net for the best price on the wots wot xl and what website popped up? My lms! A couple of emails to TJD Models and I am happy to report great communication and service - and my order has been placed..