Danny Fenton Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Hi ZKBAP Nice chippy can I just remind everybody you are referring to the Airsail with your beefing up comments?the power discussed as .8kw ties in to what we are thinking with the leccy set up too.CheersDanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Bob's advice puts a question mark over the petrol option! Still plenty of time to think about this one. The Airsail version looks nice too, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stratton Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 So the Airsail version (also 1/6 scale) works out to about 2.7kg/5lb15oz, will be interesting to see the weight of ours at the finish! Think somebody mentioned in earlier post they thought about 7.5lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think it was me Glenn, just from the dimensions I guessed 7/7.5 lbs. However, looking at the plan it is clearly designed to be light as well as strong, so perhaps 6/6.5 is more like it. The sub 6lbs. figure for the Airsail version is a pleasant surprise, perhaps the Bryant design will come out that low as well, it would explain why it could be flown on a 40! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Timmis Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Martyn thats 400 gram without silencer. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Posted by ZK BAP on 09/04/2014 12:04:02: One thing I would recommend is a bit of beefing up here and there. The tail wheel arrangement and back end need strengthening and the front cowling, due to nose overs. One can over come the nose overs by simply placing the undercarridge mounts about 15-25mm backwards. The origonal is too close to the c of g. I laminated 2 6mm ply blocks and recessed my uc wires into the new holes and since, never had a nose over. Maybe it's me, but if you move the U/C backwards, won't it bring the weight forwards, thus increasing the likelyhood of a nose-over ? Once the wheels touch down their weight is transferred through the axle, not the C of G of the aircraft. kevinb. Not very good a physics dept. Edited By kevin b on 09/04/2014 16:52:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stratton Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Tis not you I don't think Kevinb! I wasn't brave enough to query it, I couldn't recall properly but remember something about having the axle near or in front of the leading edge of the wing, also aids reducing ground loops? Glenn, Bad Memory Dept! Edited By Glenn Stratton on 09/04/2014 19:09:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZK BAP Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 OOpps.sorry Kevin, you are correct. I meant place the blocks forward not back. My apollogies. Yes this is the Airsail version i am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 So, engine weight!!!! I may have to rethink. That lovely Laser 80 I have weighs in at a whopping. 1.58 Lb 25.2 Oz .720 Kg So if we are going for light, oh dear. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZK BAP Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 The 61 pulls along just fine. But the lighter she is the better she will glide Mine balanced pretty good with no weight added anywhere with the ASP. I have had a call from Brian from Airsail. He will remake the kit if numbers are there. A special run of maybe 50 kits will be produced. The Chippy is such a great every weekend flyer. Reliable, rugged, throw around that is a joy to fly. Best of all, it is hard to find 'true' builders kits. Im just waiting for him to make the Tomahawk again, then my collection is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 ZK It's very interesting to hear about your alternative model, and any info might well be useful to us here. However the whole point of this thread is that Danny and I are building the Dennis Bryant Chipmunk, the idea is that other folk who are interested can follow along and join in, and we'll all build the same model, using the same plan and construction techniques together. I'm really looking forward to it, and I'm sure I'll learn a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Every new picture that gets posted, the more detail I see I normally build and fly sport aerobat's, with the odd bipe thrown in, at stand way back scale. I reckon you've made a good choice to push towards a more scale build. Don't know if i'm excited or nervous at times, but looking forward to it. (I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 The beauty of the subject chosen is just that John, you can stop at whatever level you are happy with. The more you look the more there is. What I think Chris and I hope for most is that you will stop at a level higher than you are now, whatever point that is doesn't really matter. I think several more experienced builders may charge ahead, that's not a problem as long as we support each other. It is good that you are looking forward to it, and nervous is no bad thing it means you might think a few extra stages ahead before you do anything. Remember moving away from a plan, even a small deviation has ramifications that may not be apparent until way down the line. I know I have done it and then spent ages recovering the situation While I remember, if you are going the bellcrank route as i am, and you pop into SLEC during the show season, and pick some up. Bear in mind a slight issue.... the SLEC ones tend to be supplied with too short a bolt and only one nut. A common misconception with bellcranks that they only need one nut.... They actually need two, bolt and nut nice and tight to the ply part to create a solid threaded post. The bellcrank nut itself only needs enough tension to remove slop. I use a fresh Nyloc for the last nut and loctite/epoxy on the former. I am pretty sure they are M2 Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Blimey Chris, I was hoping to learn from you! Danny, stopping at a level higher than I am now will not be difficult, I can assure you! Lower would be more of a challenge, but I promise that will not be my objective! Just received the May RCME and paniced when I read on the cover that Danny is a man of the cloth, since breathed a sigh of relief when I realised that it's about covering with glass cloth. Clearly, I must read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Colin I'm sure we will all, every last one of us, learn from each other. Personally I'm a big fan of the really simple ideas that are often the most effective. I don't consider myself a beginner at all, but I've lost count of how many times a new starter on here has innocently shown how he's done something, and I've thought "Blow me, why haven't I done it that way all these years?" What I'm trying to say, is that we'll all have something valuable to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I remember bellcranks Danny, I have a draw full, my Nieuport 17 has servo's in the wing My intention is to push myself, rivets and all. (I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Posted by john stones 1 on 10/04/2014 13:15:45: I remember bellcranks Danny, I have a draw full, my Nieuport 17 has servo's in the wing My intention is to push myself, rivets and all. (I think) Good man Lets see if we can get the airframe built first, this will be my first clamshell build so interested to try that method, Not sure if Chris has? I have heard that accuracy is paramount if you want the two halves to meet? I have a Mossie to build further down the line, uses a similar process but in that case they are sides not upper and lower as in the Chippy. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Done it with a FW 190 it worked for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Chris. Throughout the thread there have been a number of people including me who have been thinking about the Airsail Kit. I have one of those on my "hope to build soon" shelf and tempting as it is to follow you and Danny on the Dennis Bryant I don't have room for two and I would like to do give the kit my best shot. The Airsail does seem to have come to life almost certainly as a result of this thread and now ZK Bap is saying that there may be another production run of fifty units. I would think they will get quite a good take up. Might it be worthwhile running the two schemes in parallel with the Airsail having its own thread. I would see it as your build being the Masterclass and us kit builders following in your footsteps. It would certainly help clarify this thread and give encouragement to those who are not quite up to it or who have other commitments. What do you think? Either way I am really looking forward to building my chippie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yes I think that's a great idea Levanter, if you have a separate thread for the Airsail one, then folk would know exactly where to look for the right information. I fear that if we have both models here, then it could get confusing, and some of us might end up trying to apply a build technique from one, to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'm going to jump ship and re board on the Airsail side with Levanter as I have a part built Airsail Chippie with all the bits and bobs. Parallel threads is a great idea but I'm not starting until these guys do so I can watch, compare and get some great advice. Looking forward to October Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Okay Tony not a problem, I am not sure if levanter is intending to wait until October to start, that was the timing we placed on this project, you may tackle it when you like? Good luck and I for one will be looking in Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Just got back from a little trip in the camper and about to start clearing the decks for this one. Got the Dennis Bryant Turbie to finish and Peter Miller's Oodalally. Then, maiden the Grob and put together my second P2K!! (RIP the 1st!) Swmbo says I need a group build like the Chippie to keep me committed! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-YRUS Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I am a definite on the Dennis Bryant plan build. This may seem a bit fundamental but I was wondering if you experienced chappy's could give a brief explanation as to your choices ie bellcranks as opposed to separate servos. If its personal preference or jus that you have a drawer full to use that's great but it helps to follow the thought process and may save work and mistakes along the way as it is an older design and things have changed with regard to rc kit available now. I think I am going to be in the minority as intend to fly electric although maybe the Airsail kit will have the edge on ic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 G-YRUS its swings and roundabouts really, I do not like to have servos showing, and hatches always add weight, may not be much but they do. So the seperate servo in the wings adds weight, however it does give you redundancy should a servo fail and you control differential amounts through the Tx, ie the amount one aileron travels compared to the other. I am not sure the difference in throw on the Chippy, but on the Tiger Moth the down going aileron does not really travel down much past central, and if you look closely it actually travel upwards again at the end of travel! If the design is well thought out then the required differential will be created mechanically in the lengths of the belcrank arms, the length and angle of the horns and the pickup from the servo. Also with a single servo in the centre of the wing, means it is easily accesible not requiring hatches. So either will work fine, and if you want to fit small servos in the wings then please feel free. Hope that helps Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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