The FrSky revolution - very worried men?

[Erfolg]

Originally the question posed,is essentially does the Tranis and more broadly Frsky products broadly pose a threat to the major manufacturers.

I brought up specifically Futaba, the reason being, that in my opinion is that Futaba are destroying their own brand, for the reasons BEB has highlighted. One major advantage they had is being the brand leader, you could always get Futaba compatible accessories of all types easily.

I understand the reluctance of some to trade up the specification ladder, on the principle of what I have is good enough. At the same time, I find it easier to be seduced by multiple model memories, channel mixing on a scale I cannot believe, when I see people doing things with their sets I would like to do or have. Even apparent trivial features such as built in timers,are now seen by me as essential. I have also been converted to the dulcet tones of the female voice providing information, on time left, Lipo voltage etc.

It would not take much to convince me that I would like to know I have hooked a thermal, how high, or maybe how fast i am going, or even more useful, how near the stall I am.

Just consider this, i am not a early adopter, just a middle of the road user.

If I can get all this from a set like the Tranis, at a price I can afford, with a level of reliability that Frsky has demonstrated to me, I use their Fasst Rxs. Well i will consider abandoning Futaba, in the future. I have moved from Waltron, various Sanwa sets, to various Futaba sets, why not another brand?

[Rich too]

Posted by john stones 1 on 05/04/2014 20:22:52:

O.K. Rich

cant see a problem there, i'm still defending 35 mhz.

They need to wake up quick though mate, I know they are losing a lot of sales on rx's.

Haha! being a country flyer moving to 2.4 was a no brainer for me.

I know the prices of the rx's are eye watering and I think that helps make my point - because you need an rx for each model (rather than one tx). I tend to buy orange rx's for cheaper models and futaba rx's for more expensive models.

Rich

 

Edited By Rich2 on 05/04/2014 21:01:41

[Rich too]

Posted by Erfolg on 05/04/2014 20:55:45:

Originally the question posed,is essentially does the Tranis and more broadly Frsky products broadly pose a threat to the major manufacturers.

I understand the reluctance of some to trade up the specification ladder, on the principle of what I have is good enough. At the same time, I find it easier to be seduced by multiple model memories, channel mixing on a scale I cannot believe, when I see people doing things with their sets I would like to do or have. Even apparent trivial features such as built in timers,are now seen by me as essential. I have also been converted to the dulcet tones of the female voice providing information, on time left, Lipo voltage etc.

So you would buy one even though you don't need one?

Rich

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

It may make your point Rich but the money's going to frsky

[Rich too]

haha! fair enough!

[Geoff S]

Posted by Rich2 on 05/04/2014 21:05:07:

Posted by Erfolg on 05/04/2014 20:55:45:

Originally the question posed,is essentially does the Tranis and more broadly Frsky products broadly pose a threat to the major manufacturers.

I understand the reluctance of some to trade up the specification ladder, on the principle of what I have is good enough. At the same time, I find it easier to be seduced by multiple model memories, channel mixing on a scale I cannot believe, when I see people doing things with their sets I would like to do or have. Even apparent trivial features such as built in timers,are now seen by me as essential. I have also been converted to the dulcet tones of the female voice providing information, on time left, Lipo voltage etc.

So you would buy one even though you don't need one?

Rich

Since no-one 'needs' a transmitter of any kind then yes I would and I did. The cost was offset by selling my old FF7 and Frsky module 3 non-compatible FrSky receivers and the Spektrum DX6i which became redundant since I could use a DSM2 Ornage module in the Taranis for any Spektrum compatibel Bind 'n' Fly models. I have my Mux 3030 as a back up (with a DiY Frsky module) so it was a no-brainer. I haven't moved to FrSky from another 2.4Ghz system; it's my first one.

I was a late adopter of 2.4gHz and technically the FrSky system seemed to much superior to DSM2. I was a bit wary of using 2.4gHz because of its unbiquity in non-modelling fields. Genuine real-time frequency hopping seemed to be a good way of evading problems.

Geoff

[Ben B]

The Taranis is amazing value but is it only me that thinks its flipping ugly and looks as cheap as it is? Not saying we should all be sporting r/c jewellery but they could have attempted to make it aesthetically inoffensive!

[Rich too]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 05/04/2014 21:19:16:

Posted by Rich2 on 05/04/2014 21:05:07:

Posted by Erfolg on 05/04/2014 20:55:45:

Originally the question posed,is essentially does the Tranis and more broadly Frsky products broadly pose a threat to the major manufacturers.

I understand the reluctance of some to trade up the specification ladder, on the principle of what I have is good enough. At the same time, I find it easier to be seduced by multiple model memories, channel mixing on a scale I cannot believe, when I see people doing things with their sets I would like to do or have. Even apparent trivial features such as built in timers,are now seen by me as essential. I have also been converted to the dulcet tones of the female voice providing information, on time left, Lipo voltage etc.

So you would buy one even though you don't need one?

Rich

Since no-one 'needs' a transmitter of any kind then yes I would and I did. The cost was offset by selling my old FF7 and Frsky module 3 non-compatible FrSky receivers and the Spektrum DX6i which became redundant since I could use a DSM2 Ornage module in the Taranis for any Spektrum compatibel Bind 'n' Fly models. I have my Mux 3030 as a back up (with a DiY Frsky module) so it was a no-brainer. I haven't moved to FrSky from another 2.4Ghz system; it's my first one.

I was a late adopter of 2.4gHz and technically the FrSky system seemed to much superior to DSM2. I was a bit wary of using 2.4gHz because of its unbiquity in non-modelling fields. Genuine real-time frequency hopping seemed to be a good way of evading problems.

Geoff

I think you know what I meant by "need" Geoff. In any case moving to 2.4 is reason enough..

Rich

[Rich too]

Posted by Ben B on 05/04/2014 21:20:13:

The Taranis is amazing value but is it only me that thinks its flipping ugly and looks as cheap as it is? Not saying we should all be sporting r/c jewellery but they could have attempted to make it aesthetically inoffensive!

Haha! That was one of my first comments, but I don't think its unique to Taranis, my 7C is not exactly a looker!

Rich

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Actually Rich I bought the Taranis to make money.

Well that's been the result so far anyway. I've already sold 3 R617FS 7 channel non-telemetry FASST receivers - I'm averaging just on £40 each so far. And I'm replacing each of them with X8R, 16-channel telemetry receivers with Sbus at £25 each. I make it that I'm £45 up so far on that alone.

Today a Futaba 8FG (same transmitter as I use) went for £214 on ebay - and that was without a charger - I have the charger for mine. The Taranis costs £139. So, assuming I get something similar for my 8FG, that will be another £75 up.

I have another 4 R617FS's to sell - so that should be another £60 on the right side of the leger (assuming I replace them all with X8R's which I intend to). Let's leave the couple of 8 channel FASST receivers I have out of it for now as I have no idea what they would fetch.

So, let's do the sums then shall we: I make that within a couple of weeks I will have;

1. Sold an 8 channel 2.4 Futaba system without telemetry

2. Replaced it with 16 channel system with telemetry and be £180 up on the deal.

I don't know about you mate - but it floats my boat

BEB

PS - Much, much, bigger companies than Futaba have gone under guys!

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Posted by Rich2 on 05/04/2014 20:13:45:

So BEB, what made you spend your hard earned on a radio that did things that you didn't know you wanted?!!

Rich

For me, the killer application was the electric fuel gauge. For most of my electric models, the Tx will now speak to me, telling me just how many mAh I've used, at the press of a button.

After that, I can program it to do exactly what I want, and not just what the manufacturer decided I should have. So, I have "Sticky throttle cut" and I'm adjusting flap to ele compensation while I'm flying rather than having to land to make an adjustment. I've set up a 4 servo glider wing the way I want to have it, and I have a Vario, altimeter and GPS in said glider. None of which is expensive.

I've made one of the knobs a volume control and when the NiMh Tx battery went low at a flying session, I just plugged in a 2S lipo I just happened to have with me, because both connector, and working voltage have been thought about.

I can sit quietly with a laptop on my knee and fully program a new model, and test it, and I can not only save backups of every model setup, I can see what they do, and alter them on the PC screen.

I have a model set up with 4 functions in a wing but I only have to connect one servo plug when I attach the wing.
The Tx will monitor the receivers signal level and warn me if I'm wandering towards the edge of range. Having said that, the glider has been up above 1500ft and the telemetry log showed plenty of signal level in hand.

I'm currently selling Spektrum receivers second hand, buying FrSky telemetry receivers with more channels and having change left over. There's not even any need for a separate telemetry unit in the model like some other systems.

Oh and I have a module in the back so I can use the Spektrum receivers in the models I've not converted yet.

So, all in all, you can probably see I quite like it.

[Rich too]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 05/04/2014 21:27:28:

Actually Rich I bought the Taranis to make money.

Well that's been the result so far anyway. I've already sold 3 R617FS 7 channel non-telemetry FASST receivers - I'm averaging just on £40 each so far. And I'm replacing each of them with X8R, 16-channel telemetry receivers with Sbus at £25 each. I make it that I'm £45 up so far on that alone.

Today a Futaba 8FG (same transmitter as I use) went for £214 on ebay - and that was without a charger - I have the charger for mine. The Taranis costs £139. So, assuming I get something similar for my 8FG, that will be another £75 up.

I have another 4 R617FS's to sell - so that should be another £60 on the right side of the leger (assuming I replace them all with X8R's which I intend to). Let's leave the couple of 8 channel FASST receivers I have out of it for now as I have no idea what they would fetch.

So, let's do the sums then shall we: I make that within a couple of weeks I will have;

1. Sold an 8 channel 2.4 Futaba system without telemetry

2. Replaced it with 16 channel system with telemetry and be £180 up on the deal.

I don't know about you mate - but it floats my boat

BEB

PS - Much, much, bigger companies than Futaba have gone under guys!

So you want one, even though you don't need it. Fair enough, and you've made the move with a financial gain - although those paying £40 for £50 rx's and £214 for £250 tx's are barmy!

I doubt many others making the move are doing so and making a profit.

Rich

[Rich too]

Posted by Chris Bott - Moderator on 05/04/2014 21:30:14:

Posted by Rich2 on 05/04/2014 20:13:45:

So BEB, what made you spend your hard earned on a radio that did things that you didn't know you wanted?!!

Rich

For me, the killer application was the electric fuel gauge. For most of my electric models, the Tx will now speak to me, telling me just how many mAh I've used, at the press of a button.

After that, I can program it to do exactly what I want, and not just what the manufacturer decided I should have. So, I have "Sticky throttle cut" and I'm adjusting flap to ele compensation while I'm flying rather than having to land to make an adjustment. I've set up a 4 servo glider wing the way I want to have it, and I have a Vario, altimeter and GPS in said glider. None of which is expensive.

I've made one of the knobs a volume control and when the NiMh Tx battery went low at a flying session, I just plugged in a 2S lipo I just happened to have with me, because both connector, and working voltage have been thought about.

I can sit quietly with a laptop on my knee and fully program a new model, and test it, and I can not only save backups of every model setup, I can see what they do, and alter them on the PC screen.

I have a model set up with 4 functions in a wing but I only have to connect one servo plug when I attach the wing.
The Tx will monitor the receivers signal level and warn me if I'm wandering towards the edge of range. Having said that, the glider has been up above 1500ft and the telemetry log showed plenty of signal level in hand.

I'm currently selling Spektrum receivers second hand, buying FrSky telemetry receivers with more channels and having change left over. There's not even any need for a separate telemetry unit in the model like some other systems.

Oh and I have a module in the back so I can use the Spektrum receivers in the models I've not converted yet.

So, all in all, you can probably see I quite like it.

haha! I get it. I lot of us can't be bothered with all that mucking about and just want to go and fly!

Rich

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Fly? We're supposed to fly?

[Erfolg]

Rich, need is hard to define. My Waltron Clubman 27 still works, as does one of my Sanwa Clubman on 35, plus a Futaba 6ex on 35, as does my Futaba 6ex on 2.4.

So need is not about functioning. It is about security of control, it is about model memories and is also about chanal mixing etc.

In fact there is little about absolute need with a hobby, it is often about doing what you want within the hobby.

[Concorde Speedbird]

I have a timer for when I fly my aeroplanes- it's made of grey matter...

CS

[Geoff S]

Posted by Concorde Speedbird on 05/04/2014 22:26:35:

I have a timer for when I fly my aeroplanes- it's made of grey matter...

CS

Presumably you don't fly electric models.

Geoff

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Rich - when did I say I didn't need it?

BEB

[Concorde Speedbird]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 05/04/2014 22:47:19:

Posted by Concorde Speedbird on 05/04/2014 22:26:35:

I have a timer for when I fly my aeroplanes- it's made of grey matter...

CS

Presumably you don't fly electric models.

Geoff

Occasionally I do, but I can still run out of fuel as well (and these days when electric models are low on power then they divert power to the controls rather than power, so it ends up the same as an IC model anyway). I've found that over time I have learnt to know when to land so I don't bother using a timer any more.

CS

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Rich2 on 05/04/2014 21:51:05:

I doubt many others making the move are doing so and making a profit.

Rich

Don't see why not Rich - if you look at the history on ebay £40 is about par for the course for R617FS - I'm not getting unusually high prices.

BEB

[Danny Fenton]

I liked it when cars had four gears, no air con (thats what windows are for) no abs or traction control and we had crossply tyres....

Is that true, no! I love my Jeti and I paid over 1K for it, what does bug me is that the Taranis can do as much, if not more in some areas, than my beloved Jeti.

Granted the Taranis isn't milled from a solid piece of metal and doesn't contain dual transmitters (er.... oh yes it does with an optional module) I would have one in an instant if it offered more than I have in areas that are important and at nearly a tenth of the cost. How an earth can it even be compared to the Futaba/JR/Hitec when looking at "bang per buck"

Cheers

Danny

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

returning closer to the OP, how about taking another factor into consideration here.

Futaba are distributed in the UK by Ripmax. Spektrum by Horizon Hobby, Hitec by J.Perkins and so on. Now we can't buy from these people - only dealers can. So one of these transmitters, by the time it reaches us, has got to deliver a cut for; the manufacturer, the distributor and the shop.

FrSky have neatly side-stepped this, in effect they have done the classic move of "cutting out the middle man" by supplying direct to a retailer - T9.

When you think about it there is little real need for a distributer in this day and age. OK 30 years ago without the internet and with a less developed air freight business - yes it made sense. But today - no. I can't really see the value added to the chain by the distributor anymore.

FrSky, and HK for that matter, have shown that you don't need them and that's another way they keep the cost down. But Futaba et al are stitched into this chain and would find moving away from it more difficult I suspect.

BEB

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Geoff S]

Posted by Concorde Speedbird on 05/04/2014 22:54:28:

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 05/04/2014 22:47:19:

Posted by Concorde Speedbird on 05/04/2014 22:26:35:

I have a timer for when I fly my aeroplanes- it's made of grey matter...

CS

Presumably you don't fly electric models.

Geoff

Occasionally I do, but I can still run out of fuel as well (and these days when electric models are low on power then they divert power to the controls rather than power, so it ends up the same as an IC model anyway). I've found that over time I have learnt to know when to land so I don't bother using a timer any more.

CS

Tim Hooper said the same. He and I were flying tiogether at our scale day, I'd taken off after him and was coming to the end of my time when Tim ran out of battery on his big 1/4 scale WW1 biplane (Sopwith Pup?). He ran into the annoying hump at the end of our runway put there to stop strange cars tearing up our asphalt. He was lucky; it only broke a prop but it could have been worse. Models have been lost on the hump

I spent my professional life designing and using measurement systems. I like to know what's happening objectively rather than trust subjective feelings. Time flies when you're enjoying yourself.

Geoff.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I don't know gents just paid my first visit to T9 im weakening

I feel we have been held to ransom for years with prices

The more I read the better it looks, the add says servo's coming soon

How many servo's get bought each year