Craig Carr Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Posted by Danny Fenton on 21/12/2014 21:37:55: I have never bothered with PolyC as I do not see any advantages. If i am correct it is water based and can warp a structure if not sealed first. It also takes at least six coats to get to where I was after just ten minutes. Granted resin takes longer to dry. I think resin is harder and definitely hard lasting. I cannot see any advantages, epoxy doesnt really smell either..... Cheers Danny I used to use poly c but never again...Phil Clarke of fighter aces once told me that (even putting the risk of warping to one side) by the time the 6 coats (often more to fill the weave) soaks into the balsa it can weigh the same if not more than a properly done epoxy resin covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 I have no empirical proof of what you or Phil say Craig, but I do think that you are probably right. Blimey Dave, then those of us that can use the stuff should consider ourselves lucky. After studying all the pics I have, I have decided that at this scale, the underlying stitches on the ribs is possibly a bridge too far, so I am going to simply apply the tapes. These have to be applied on the wing in certain areas before the leading edge is glassed. As the tapes have to go on in a certain sequence, it looks like I will be doing rib tapes in between the epoxy glassing sessions Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Wolf Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I have used polyC on a couple of club 2000 pylon racers, it takes quite a few coats to fill the weave and still requires a lot of work to get a good finish. When i finally get round to covering i hope to have a go at tissue and silk (if its not likely to be too heavy) or glass cloth. Regards SW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi Danny, Great videos, really useful. I will be starting this process on my A-10 shortly and in an attempt to minimise the amount of sanding pre-primer Im wanting to try the peel ply method - so great to see up close the way it should be done! Just one question regarding those areas of the flying surfaces that don't get any glass cloth - like the recesses where your rudder (in this case) would fit along the hinge line - how do you finish those areas before they are primed? Do you just finish off with a coat of epoxy resin with no glass? best regards Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi SW, I want to have a go at tissue and silk but I think the model needs to be a bit bigger to make it worthwhile. Maybe when I get around to something slightly bigger Hi Phil, glad you enjoyed the vids, they are on youtube at HD res, though one suddenly changes to black and white no idea what that's about The areas like the inside of the fin/rudder I just give a coat of resin to seal the surface, if I remember it doesn't really need anything in there unless the model is going to be subjected to moisture or fuel/oil. On my Hurricane I did the hidden areas with a coat of dope, and will probably do the same on this Chipmunk. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Still waiting for the other side of the fin to harden so..... Rib tapes: The 1/6 rib tapes I am using are from Mick Reeves and are available in lots of different scales. First of all after studying the pics, the tapes along the tops of the ribs are applied first, then the leading edge and root tape. This tape also has to have the underlying screw heads. Then finally the trailing edge tap is applied. I have run out of time just now to do the trailing edges but you get the idea. This is the contents of a single rib tape pack First of all large glue dots were used to simulate the screw heads underneath the fabric where it meets the leading edge. These are done with RC Modellers glue, though with hindsight epoxy drop with a toothpick might have given us a more sturdy lump. The problem with RCModellers glue is that it flattens and melts under the heat of the film iron Tapes along the ribs first Then the leading edge, being very careful to not iron the glue dots flat! The trailing edge still needs doing but you get the idea This shot of the tip shows the chamfered channel the the tape is sitting in. For the leading edge strip I used the double width tape cut in half lengthways. That put the striaght edge in the channel. Some thin CA will go in their just to make sure it doesn't come adrift. The tip rib tape is the normal width tape cut in half lengthways, two tips from one strip. You get a lot in a pack from Mick, but no sense wasting it Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Day Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Fascinating. I'll definitelt give this a go when I get to that stage. I just hope that they're still making rib tapes then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 The serious risk with epoxy resin is contact Dermatitis. If you get that you probably won't get rid of it, so keep it off your skin. Sensitisation can increase over time, so you have to be careful. I've used It on and off over the years (or polyester), the first occasion was using a fibre-glass kit for reinforcing the fuselage floor on an own design single channel radio job in 1962 when I was 16! I don't particularly like using the stuff, but it's certainly useful. However, although I can see the risk of wood distortion with water based resins like Ezekote and PolyC, I think they are particularly effective on foam and Depron because there isn't any absorption and therefore no warping risk. I have found that 3 coats sanded down gives an excellent finish for painting. The other thing that interests me is the indication that if you use Ezekote etc. on the foam/Depron, dope doesn't seem to attack it (so far). This opens up a load of possibilities, which I'm exploring on this build. Also, as I found out from the Barnstormer build, Depron with just 17gm glass cloth and Ezekote amazed me with how tough it turned out to be. It's certainly tough enough for the Chipmunk, so that's what I am doing. Composite build, balsa and Depron, glass-cloth and Ezekote on the sheeted areas, doped Esaki silk on the open areas. I just wish I could get more hours in, although I have a better chance these next two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 I did really want to use tissue and dope or silk as Colin has done, but guessed most of you following along would be using an iron on film so have gone down this route. If you want to make the structure stronger then use one of the doped on coverings. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucksboy Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I use a foam roller to spread the resin, as recommended by Bucks Composites. I find it an excellent method and spreads the epoxy out really well leaving the surface nice and dry. Four foam rollers for a pound from the Pound shops makes it a cheap way to apply it too. I've just glassed the first side of my Brian Taylor Bf109. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 I must confess i never got on with a foam roller, seemed too use more resin to me, and not so agile, certainly not for small areas anyway. But if I had to do a larger model then I think I would give it a go, it's got to be quicker than the Jenny Brushes that's for sure did a little more today, glassed the underside of the tailplane, and the underside of the wings and centre section added two layers under the centre as its often area I pick up the model and the balsa sheet was a touch flexible in that area! No pics, not really anything different to see to what I have already shown........ Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Muckley Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Danny thanks forall your effort on the build and sorry i've been quiet as my laptop threw a wobbly, going flying today, not sureif your up for it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Andy thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I was back at work Monday Have fun and don't forget the hand warmers Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Muckley Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Ok Danny see you in the new year and we'll have a chippy formation flight one day. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Muckley Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Danny when you fixed the fin on the model did you put an hole in the planking to take the extended bit of leading edge where it shows a 1/4" fillet at F11 as i'm struggling to understand where this fillet fits in relation to the said extended bit of leading edge. I know you sawed your's off to re align it up a little, when you fixed it back on did you simply glue he fin onto the back of the fus. Hope this makes sense. Just to let you know where i am at i have completed he wing and tail sections and both sides of the fus and planked them, which i enjoyed and will do again even though it is a slow process and am looking forward to sanding it to look the part, there are a couple of tiny gaps but overall satisfied with it as it's my first bit of planking Thank's again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Andy, really pleased you are getting on so well. I think everybody ends up with a few gaps, just wedge some thin strips of balsa in the gaps, once glassed it will be plenty strong enough Yes I did cut a hole in the sheeting to allow that annoying fin bit to go through. Once the fin is attached you can fit the wedge inside. As you rightly say I ended up sawing the fin off flush and gluing the fin back on. The fin doesn't need the forward bit in my opinion but it and the wedge do reinforce the sheeting under the fin. So I wouldn't skip those bits. Just doing some rib tapes with the underlying stitching to see if it is worth all the effort. Looks good but blimey its a lot of work.... You will have to look really closely to actually see the result of an hours work......is it worth it? Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 As you say it's hard to see I would think the paint job would make it more visible though. Have you ever tried pinking shears for cutting rib tapes Danny ? would it work or would the edges look wrong ? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi John the problem is finding pinking shears at the right scale. I have bought a few and none have been anywhere near small enough. Mick Reeves doesn't charge a lot for his pinked tapes and the scale is correct, just as easy to buy them imo I have just checked my pics and there should only be 5 stitches from the front to the back of the flaps, I have done way too many. As they are so difficult to see I will keep going on this flap and correct the spacing on the rest. Kills time while waiting for epoxy to set at least Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 O.K Danny, they look good by the way John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I think I will go ahead and add them to the upper surfaces, you are right John they will show up when the silver goes on. Seems a waste of time to do them on the undersides though Had a nice chat with Phil Clark and it looks like I am going to be using KlassKote Silver. Never used the paint but I have heard nothing but good reports. I will go with the KK white primer as well I reckon. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Walters Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hi Danny - just spent time watching your videos and the rib taping. All excellent stuff and thank you for doing all this for us - much appreciated! I will give the epoxy method a try as against Poly C. I like Poly C but if you don't try something you'll never know whether it works for you or not. I already have the rib tapes so will also use those and try to simulate stitching too. Hopefully next week I will be back in harness! Pete B had a look at the Chippy earlier this week and I think he was reasonably impressed. He certainly found the planked fus very light! Happy New Year to you and yours Danny. Cheers Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Muckley Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Looks brill Danny and will do as you say regarding the fin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi Terry glad you got something out of the videos. You are whizzing along now Andy! A slight update for those of you that want to try peel ply, I mention in the video that you should try and get the stuff rolled as the creases are really difficult to get to lay flat. Anyway turn your covering iron to 140 and iron the peel ply flat, works really well. Anyway the fuselage has had cloth on both sides now, overlapping at the top and bottom. Just the lower centre section of the fus to do. The wings still need the underside glassing. I am struggling with the glass to Solartex join so will make sure I have that all sorted before I attempt it on the top. While waiting for resin to dry I thought I would continue with the rib tapes and stitching. I removed every other strip of cotton from my home made stitch tape and applied it to the other flap. This looks much better with the correct spacing. This is barely discernible, and I know you will all be saying why bother if you wont see it. Well lets wait and see, I reckon it will be "just" visible and will disrupt the surface to add some realism. Rib stitching at 1/6th is a bit barmy really but its fun.... Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Just realised I haven't shown how I am doing this, perhaps another video is called for If you dont want a "scale Matters" spolier look away now......... I must just say that this method was shown to me by ace scale modeller Richard Crapp, thanks Richard First you will need some pure cotton thread, it must be cotton not polyester. Polyester doesn't stick as well. You will also need some carpet tape, this is double sidded tape. The cheapest is best as you want it to be very thin. Lay a layer of tape on a strip of wood. Then another layer on top. Peel the backing from the top layer, leaving the sticky facing upwards. Wrap thread around and around the wooden stick, ensuring the spacing is as you need. Do not stretch it tight! Using a steel rule as a guide, and using the rotary cutter, cut the stuff into strips 3/16 wide. Tease the strip up and apply to the rib tops. Rememeber I used to many threads to the inch innitially and I removed a few threads to give me 5 per flap rib. These are sticky between the bits of thread which helps position the Solartex pinked tape. Hold it up to a light to make sure it is central. Then simply iron the pinked tape down. I tend to keep the iron away from the middle and just do the edges and the area between the thread strips. Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 02/01/2015 15:25:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Day Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thanks Danny, nicely explained. I'm not sure how much of this I'll do but I'm hoping to try at least a little. And if/when I do, at least I won't be 'flying blind' now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.