Counterfeit Goods

[Iain Hale]

Please be aware that RC Shop UK http://rcshopuk.com are advertising

Brand New high quality replacement receiver spectrum Ar6210,,any defects can be exchanged or refund.

I purchased one of these RX together with an AR7000 RX. They look like Spektrum units have Spektrum moulded into the case. I sent the units to Horizon Hobbies for validation.Turns out they are counterfeit in the words of HH.

I shall of course be returning these items for a refund. Just goes to show caveat emptor

[Pete B]

To be honest, Iain, on price alone they cannot be anything but counterfeit, comparing them with the normal retail price of those Rx's which are still current.

The website looks a typical 'Chinglish' offering, too, with such phrases as:

Our Shipping
Items will be shipped by Royal Mail Registered in UK,Irelend.

To other Euro Courtries by TNT POST or Germany Post Service.

......

Best of luck with a refund!...

Pete

[Iain Hale]

Having spoken to both my CC company and Pay Pal its actually game set and match

[Pete B]

We're very fortunate to now have such guarantees, that's for sure

Pete

[Paul Marsh]

I was wondering if the AR 6210 DSM X rx's on Ebay were genuine. In my other thread, it was the 6200 and 6100e that were fakes going around, but looking yesterday at the photos on the site, a few things gave the game away.

There should be a HH stickers on the sat and rx, but nothing I can see. Problem is that the case looks much more genuine than the 6200 were, as you could tell, by the blue chinese writing, also the case not having the " - + ^ "on the label, telling which pin is which.

I've bought rx's off ebay, but these were from uk model shops - the last one I got was from Al's Ebay listing and the other from Inwood's ebay listing.

So if it's too cheap, and brand new, most likely to be fake. Also if the vendor says "Spektrum Compatable"," Works with Spektrum", then it's likely to be fake. If advertised as "Genuine Spektrum Product", then it will be genuine, and if you get it and it's not, you can get your money back, as it's been described dishonestly.

This one looks real:

**LINK**DISPATCH-/321418468842?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item4ad6089dea

I can't seem to find any at the moment that looks fake, apart from the usual AR6200 ones.

[avtur]

I don't know what to make of this ... I've bought what turned out to be a 'fake' receiver from a very well known name in model retailing.

I thought the price was 'good' to the point it made me slightly suspicious, but because of who was selling it I thought it would be OK ... it wasn't ... but I only found that out when the Rx was delivered.

So what on earth are we supposed to do to make sure to make sure we get 'bona fide' goods .... ??

[Pete B]

I'd say the only way to 'guarantee' that you're getting a genuine product is to buy from an official supplier, avtur. For Spektrum gear, for instance, Horizon Hobby's Store Locator should be a pretty good guide.

Buying from any other source, whatever their reputation, must carry some possibility of buying a counterfeit product. I've bought a fair number of Spekky items from various sources, 'official' or otherwise but have been guided by the price, presentation and 'gut feeling' that the items are genuine - and I haven't been 'had over' yet.

In the OP's example, there are plenty of obsolescent items which would no longer be offered by an official supplier - who, if they were holding such stocks, would probably offer them at a flashed discount price.

Pete

[john melia 1]

Posted by Paul Marsh on 31/05/2014 22:07:00:

I was wondering if the AR 6210 DSM X rx's on Ebay were genuine. In my other thread, it was the 6200 and 6100e that were fakes going around, but looking yesterday at the photos on the site, a few things gave the game away.

There should be a HH stickers on the sat and rx, but nothing I can see. Problem is that the case looks much more genuine than the 6200 were, as you could tell, by the blue chinese writing, also the case not having the " - + ^ "on the label, telling which pin is which.

I've bought rx's off ebay, but these were from uk model shops - the last one I got was from Al's Ebay listing and the other from Inwood's ebay listing.

So if it's too cheap, and brand new, most likely to be fake. Also if the vendor says "Spektrum Compatable"," Works with Spektrum", then it's likely to be fake. If advertised as "Genuine Spektrum Product", then it will be genuine, and if you get it and it's not, you can get your money back, as it's been described dishonestly.

This one looks real:

**LINK**DISPATCH-/321418468842?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item4ad6089dea

I can't seem to find any at the moment that looks fake, apart from the usual AR6200 ones.

The thing is it doesn't mention 'genuine' wnywhere in the listing

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Avtur a lot depends I suspect on exactly what was advertised. This outfit referred to by the OP claim to sell "replacement Spektrum receivers" which is a beautifully ambiguous expression isn't it. It doesn't actually say that they are Spektrum receivers and I'm sure that if taken to task they would say that the advert makes it plain that they are replacements for Spektrum receivers! The lawyers could argue that one all day!

But if you bought from any traceable UK retailer a receiver which he claimed was Spektrum and it turned out to be fake then you have clear grounds for full redress under the Sale of Goods Act - the goods were not as described. Any problems with the retailer - simply go to your local Trading Standards Officer - he'll be very interested to hear your story.

But - check the small print carefully first - did the retailer clearly state that they were Spektrum, or did you clearly order Spectrum, in either case I see no problem. But, if like this lot, the retailer muddied the claim somewhat as to what exactly you were ordering, then its going to be more difficult. But Trading Standards may still be interested, because as I understand it, it is illegal to sell copies of items - even openly acknowledging them to be copies - in the UK

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 31/05/2014 23:25:38

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

The eBay listing Paul puts up is a case in support of what I say about reading carefully. It does not say that it is a Spektrum receiver! It says it is a "receiver for Spektrum". Now it might just possibly be the seller's poor English - but in my opinion not so! I believe that's a fake and again if pushed the seller would defend himself by saying "I never said it was a Spektrum receiver, I said it was a receiver for Spektrum"

BEB

[iqon]

if it says replacement, it suggests its not genuine but thats my opinion..

[PatMc]

BEB, the AR7000 of the OP is described in the ad as quote "This is brand new receiver spectrum AR7000..."

The AR 6210 is described as a "Brand New high quality replacement receiver spectrum Ar6210..." but further on in it's description the key features include "Patented DuaLink technology" & reference to "US patent 7,391,320"

I don't think there can be any ambiguity that these are claims of being genuine Spektrum products.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Pat, if you look at this page here - no where does he explicitly state this is a Spektrum receiver. Typical of his patter is that he says its:

"Brand New high quality replacement receiver spectrum

Ar6210,,any defects can be exchanged or refund."

Notice first of all the position of the line break, and secondly "spectrum" not "Spektrum" - although when he refers to software later he suddenly gets it right and spells it "Spektrum" and with a capital "s" - but on that occasion he is merely stating a fact about Spektrum software - quite true, not that this receiver necessarily has it (it probably does but that's a different issue!) And that is the only occasion on the whole page I think when he spells Spektrum correctly.

Other comments about patents etc - he doesn't explicitly claim they apply here. They appear as disjointed statements on a line - so what? He can write "Spektrum receivers are have this or that technology" all true - but he's not said that this is a Spektrum receiver!

Its all smoke and mirrors. Does he overstep the line? Does he say enough to hang himself I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. He certainly comes damn close. But for me its academic, there is enough prevarication in there to make it smell like a whole barrel of rotten fish! I don't think that would fool a careful reader and that my point. The clues are there - we just have to read them carefully.

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 01/06/2014 00:11:25

[John Privett]

Whatever the claims made about their products, who are we actually dealing with, and whose laws would apply in the event of a dispute?

The domain rcshopuk.com was registered 6 months ago with Tucows, Inc in the USA, by a reseller ecommerce.com, to an organisation called 'tengli diao' in Shenzen, China. Despite the pricing being in £ and having 'uk' in the domain name, this is evidently a Chinese company, so good luck trying to get them to do anything under the Sale of Goods Act or the Distance Selling regulations! Their Ts & Cs seem somewhat contrary to the Distance Selling regulations (and probably other UK/Euro laws too) which I guess isn't surprising.

[adrian lawrence 1]

Spotted these **LINK** on ebay. If you read the listing it shows them as having JR type plugs, and also states at the end of the description "** The item is a replacement servo, it is not make by Futaba. Therefore the seller is clearly stating that they are selling counterfeit items.

However quite often people do not read the listing properly and will think they are genuine. I have contacted ebay regarding this, however the listings are never removed.

[John F]

The only thing you can do is report them to eBay, sadly eBay makes this harder to do each year as the text allowed is tiny.

Reporting a seller as a whole is impossible due to the stupid eBay reporting system so you have to do it one item at a time. The sellers know this so create hundreds of listings.

[adrian lawrence 1]

You are quite correct John, there is a limited amount of choice from drop down boxes when reporting an item. As a consequence you cannot fully state the reason. However years ago when contacting ebay about an obvious fake, I received the reply "we are not experts in this matter, you will have to contact the manufacturer"!!! Makes you wonder if they are really bothered.

[Paul Marsh]

As I was saying in my last post.It looks genuine,but that's as far as I can tell.

Really if you really intend to properly fly your models in a safe, responsible way, just buy from a model shop as you can be sure if it's genuine.

(Although a model shop somewhere was selling AR6200 fakes on ebay. I reported a counterfeit item on ebay,but that person was still selling them afterwards)
Problem is that there are so many vendors, it is impossible to police, or even act upon due to the sheer numbers.

An even then, ban all vendors from selling, when they usually have a high % feedback...?

[kc]

I think there is something in British credit card regulations which protects us when we use a British credit card to buy things abroad. So a refund should be possible if using credit cards but perhaps not if using Paypal. Note we get more rights from a credit card than a debit card.

Redress from a major credit card might provoke some action to stop the fraudsters accepting credit cards in future.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by John Privett on 01/06/2014 01:58:10:

Whatever the claims made about their products, who are we actually dealing with, and whose laws would apply in the event of a dispute?

The domain rcshopuk.com was registered 6 months ago with Tucows, Inc in the USA, by a reseller ecommerce.com, to an organisation called 'tengli diao' in Shenzen, China. Despite the pricing being in £ and having 'uk' in the domain name, this is evidently a Chinese company, so good luck trying to get them to do anything under the Sale of Goods Act or the Distance Selling regulations! Their Ts & Cs seem somewhat contrary to the Distance Selling regulations (and probably other UK/Euro laws too) which I guess isn't surprising.

John, my comment about Trading Standards was not in relation to this site. It was specifically with regard to Avtur's complaint above that he had been supplied with fake receivers by a "very well known name in model retailing". It was not made in respect of the OP - where I agree you would have no chance, a simple visit to the "contact us" page of the website is more than sufficient to establish that on its own without recourse to more sophisticated methods such as tracing the owners of the domain name.

My point about this site discussed in the OP is that we really shouldn't be taken in by it. All of the "danger signs" are there. A lack of a clear unequivocal, error free, statement that this actual item is a Spektrum receiver and "contact us" page that only gives a "chat link", no postal address, no email, no telephone number.

Outfits like this rely on greed, avarice blinding people from just applying very basic common sense judgements; does this company look genuine? are they prepared to tell me where they are? are they likely to respond in the event of a problem? is this price reasonable - i.e. not unbelievably cheap - do they describe the goods in a clear and unambiguous fashion? If the answer to any of these questions is "no" - then don't buy from them, and if you do, maybe you only have yourself to blame.

BEB

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Paul Marsh]

I had a Eaurgle 6ch micro rx. Not ever intended as a Spektrum copy, as Spektrum don't make this unit.

Had it for a couple of years was totally ok,, then started to lock of the model, being a Swift II kept going into the deck, although range check afterwards was ok.

Just started to go unreliable, and couldn't explain it.

Got rid of it and put a genuine Spektrum 6100e in it.

[Bob Gowing]

Hi

I'm a producer making a series about fakes for BBC1. One of the areas i'm looking into is fake model aircraft parts. Very keen to hear from anyone who has bought, or knows someone who has a bought a fake Spectrum receiver or transmitter or any other aircraft parts.

Many thanks

Bob