Mike Stevens Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Has anyone built from a photo copy of the plan and had any issues. Some components have been stretched by the copy process, mainly the longer components such as the fuse bottom. Back to the original copy and a pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyrick Gibbins Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I scanned mine and on first print with scale at 1 to 1 and Auto rotate on it did print 2-3mm short all round. Re printed with Size as original from DPI and Auto Rotate off and Portrait manually selected, that fixed all dimensions as per original. That way I can cut up the printed copy and stick to the wood or backing card to make templates. Would not have thought a photocopy to change dimensions unless enlarge or reduced percentages set. Edited By Deyrick Gibbins on 29/09/2014 22:17:26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dowell Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Deyrick re using a trycopter tail system on this model....I think that you will find that it is unsuitable. I also fly trycopters and have used the U.C. mounting blocks as a pivot on the tail motor ..but it only works in the "Roll" This model requires roll and pitch as it does not use an elevator.......and on the matter of cooling holes in the fuz...I cut three 15mm holes in the underside of the fuz angled back with a piece of sharpened K&S tube. Chris... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stevens Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks Deyrick. It only appeared to distort the longer components - formers etc were ok. I have known this before. I wondered if it was the auto feed 'stretching' the copy as it fed in but I then tried it flat on the copier glass with same result. I really want to get the fuse bottom correct as this seems fairly critical. I only spotted this as I stared to build from cut out templates glued to wood with pva - I then wondered if the templates had stretched when glued which is when I started checking measurements and noticed the error. Will have another go but if I can't get the copier at work to behave will resort to the pin method....lol Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 **LINK** Blades are coming up as "Product not found" at the moment but don't worry. I've spoken to AJ and he's taken the link down because he doesn't know how to show them as out of stock. He's sold £600 worth of these in the last 2 weeks. I wonder why! They will be back in stock by the end of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Whiting 1 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 MIke, Try using the 'pin hole system' Lay the free plan over your 6mm sheet, adjust plan for least wastage and pin in position, then carefully pin through the printed line every 6mm. Remove plan and cut directly over the pin holes. Job done Terry PS, the same method can be applied for all the components Edited By Terry Whiting 1 on 30/09/2014 11:34:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyrick Gibbins Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Posted by Chris Dowell on 30/09/2014 01:17:55: Deyrick re using a trycopter tail system on this model....I think that you will find that it is unsuitable. I also fly trycopters and have used the U.C. mounting blocks as a pivot on the tail motor ..but it only works in the "Roll" This model requires roll and pitch as it does not use an elevator.......and on the matter of cooling holes in the fuz...I cut three 15mm holes in the underside of the fuz angled back with a piece of sharpened K&S tube. Chris... Hi Chris, I was going to use 3 brackets as per photo below. The bottom is slightly different size but the holes are nearly in line with the second one which is rotated 90 degrees, only need a slight file and would bolt together fine. Would use GF or Ply to make plate on top for spindle and the control arms, would be easy enough. As it is Malcolm has received a few of those C30 heads he was expecting so my pre order is on its way. Must have sold out of older stock quick and now Blades sold out, got spares of those anyway when I made my CFL. Edited By Deyrick Gibbins on 30/09/2014 16:38:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Crumbs, that is 40 sets, should have negotiated some sort of commission! The HK head is a worry, so with this in mind I have put pen to paper and designed something that will hopefully replace it. I will get the parts laser cut in the next few days and do some experimenting. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyrick Gibbins Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am surprised there has nothing been designed before and readily on sale as a Full Control Head. Just roll head and elevator is easy enough to achieve like the CFL or Crane SFH. Full Control seems to rely on the HK C30 head or home made Heath Robison affairs, until you get into the bigger machined stuff. I will put my home made head together just to see if feasible, it would cost very little as the HK nose leg bits are very cheap, those a few nuts and bolts and a piece of GF. Edited By Deyrick Gibbins on 30/09/2014 19:15:50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hi all, Ok now i have the right size wood to make up the blades i can progress a bit further . So do i make them the same as Steve Jones2 as i read somewhere that they provided too much lift . Also i will be starting on the Atom Lite soon and i was thinking on using this for the head with a motor mount and bearing as describe for use with the crane fly . Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I think my blades were fine, as seen in he flying videos but did create too much lift initially as I only used 0.4mm shims. When this was doubled to 0.8, reducing lift slightly all was good... Rich model also had 0.8mm shims I think..... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Comment was made about cooling and I mentioned I had cut holes in the cowl - my basic rule is outlet min twice size as inlet... Finally a finishing touch to the model, thanks to "Modelmarkings" Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Posted by Steve Jones 2 on 30/09/2014 21:05:05: I think my blades were fine, as seen in he flying videos but did create too much lift initially as I only used 0.4mm shims. When this was doubled to 0.8, reducing lift slightly all was good... Rich model also had 0.8mm shims I think..... Steve Thanks Steve , i will get started soon . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dowell Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 G'Day Deyrick....Yes you are correct...it looks as if the U / C blocks may work. That's a good bit of lateral thinking. Happy Landings Chris... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Whiting 1 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Stephen J, I have toyed with the idea of a similar type UV joint, I take it that one is a large marine prop shaft coupling.. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel simkin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 you cut the root of the blade to give it the angle at what measurement should I mark it at roughly? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Whiting 1 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Nigel, After what Rich stated my Atom blades will be left square, I think there has been some misunderstanding, as these angled cut blade were an experiment of late, and nothing to do with Atom. Special. About the angle, Rich stated he was not sure they (root angled blades) would be effective on the Atom as the triangular FG plate is significantly smaller than others, meaning models with the larger triangular plate. Terry. Edited By Terry Whiting 1 on 01/10/2014 18:29:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi Terry, I am hoping i can make something like this . Which is the head for the Falcon Auto gyro . Here Just not sure how strong it will be , as i will be having ago at making the Atom Special out of Depron and so should be light . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi all, I am new to this forum. I have built some twin-rotor Autogyro's, one FF model a long long time ago (Dave Brown? in Aeromodeller), and one recently: Al Foot's Twirl. I also tried a Benson-style pusher AG with a helicopter swashplate head, but had to abort that. Now the spark lighted again with the Panther and Atom designs published in RCM&E. I am thinking of creating a mix of the two, with the size and the twin-tail design od the Atom, and the mast and rotor head Panther style. I have a question regarding the hinge lines. I see that the HK head has the pitch hinge above the roll hinge, but the Panther head has the pitch hinge below the roll hinge. Are there any advantages/disadvantages with each type? Greetings from Boskoop, The Netherlands, Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Max, First off, welcome to the forum from me. To answer your question regarding the position of the pitch pivot, I don't really think it makes a lot of difference if I am honest. However, it is always good practice to get the roll pivot centre in-line with the centres of the roll ball joints, much the same as we would position a control horn on a rudder/elevator etc You Panther/Atom hybrid sounds like an interesting project, be sure to post your work if you get chance as I am sure there will be plenty of interest Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Whiting 1 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hi Stephen, That is an interesting head, are you going to adapt a FG triangular flex plate? I managed to purchase a C30 head from Coolwinds Models, but sadly out of stock at present, but I had been toying with a UV coupling from an IC car, all it really needs is for me to silver solder a small plate for fixing the triangular FG flex plate. Something to play about with before I start the Atom. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Drillkens Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hello Everybody, I´ve started building yesterday. Got the wood Parts cutted already! Really nice design Rich!!!!! In fact that I have one of the HK Heads as a Spare for my FireFly and Mantis I´m going to take this one for the Atom! Thinking about making the Mast, Tail and UC removable to get the Atom fit into an aliminum suitcase for better and safe transportation! See if this will work! Will post some photos! But I´ve got a question on the blades! I like to make them by myself! The measurements of the blanks I know because of the AJ Blades! But the aerofoil I´m not sure about! May I use the panther or Mantis aerofoil an scale it down? Thanks Regards from Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The 0.8 mm FG sheet for the rotor mounting plate is difficult to source around here, would 1 mm thick material do? Do I have to alter the shape/size to allow for more flexibility? I am happy to alter things mechanical to my taste, but I don't like to tinker with anything tried and tested like this if it was not necessary. (and yes, I know you can order the ready made item from Coolwind ). Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones 2 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Markus, My blade endform shape is shown on one of my pictures earlier in this thread. Does not follow an official profile - just carved by eye and seems to work fine.. Max, I source 0.8mm plate via usual ebay route without issues.....as to the plate thickness I trieda 1.5mm on the whippit and it made the model completely un flyable. Went back to the 0.8mm and all was good again. Not sure if you use 1mm for this, I am sure others more informed will comment to help but for me its something I will not stray away from the designers original in future...... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Z Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I found a source for FG sheet at Hobbyplastic/MacGregor industries, and I have 0.8 mm sheet on order. Regarding the HK motor/prop installation suggested in the RCM&E article: I checked the specs at the HK site, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18153__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_2826_980kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html and was surprised to find the current is limited to 10 Amps, with a max. loading of 96 Watt! Richard claims a full bore power consumption of 170 Watt, which is way over that. To tell you the truth I do not trust the HK specs as the weight of 44 g seems rather small (and is shown as 113 g in the SK3 type listings). As a fixed wing flyer I have to say that I find a 10x7 prop on a 920 kV motor at 3s rather hefty, I am flying a 1m20 biplane on a 10x4 with a similar setup with lots of power to spare. But I guess that shows how much I know about autogyro's............. Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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