Simon Chambers Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's been announced that DSM2 on new Spektrum radios won't be supported any longer. Basically (without getting into the technical details) because the DSM2 protocol can't meet the new radio regs (EN300328 v1.8.1 in particular). [translated source] Don't panic though, any existing radios will still be completely legal to operate and it's totally legal to sell any existing stock (new and old) in shops and privately too. The only units affected are those that are imported (both new and second hand). Cheers, Si. Edited By Simon Chambers on 05/01/2015 23:52:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Can you authenticate the source on the rc-heli forum? I cannot see the link on my work computer and cannot find any mention on the Spektrum pages of this announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chambers Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Posted by John F on 06/01/2015 07:48:42: Can you authenticate the source on the rc-heli forum? I cannot see the link on my work computer and cannot find any mention on the Spektrum pages of this announcement. The poster account on rc-heli is the official Horizon Germany account. This is from a lead developer on RCGroups who works on the Spektrum product line: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30366179&postcount=13 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30366881&postcount=17 At the moment it seems to be a case of waiting for Horizon to update their literature. Also I suspect they don't want to shout this too loudly, as it's not the most positive bit of news that they're going to have to discontinue DSM2. The receivers will be alright and continue to support DSM2 though (if Spektrum choose to). Even though they do transmit during binding, the output power is low enough to not come under the stricter requirements of the new regs. Si. Edited By Simon Chambers on 06/01/2015 11:14:19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 While existing DSM2 devices will carry on working, you are far better off if you use the DSMX protocol dues to the frequency agility of DSMX compared with the pair of frequencies used by DSM2 - basically if you have fly in a interference rich area (typically an urban area with lots of Wifi, mobiles, remote cameras etc) and suffer an in-flight loss of signal the rebind back to the transmitted signal will be far faster under DSMX that DSM2 which means less crashes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I've been using a DSM2 only Dx6i for several years and have got a few BnF DSM2 models and Rx's, never had a problem with DSM2, but now if my Dx6i craters then I can't buy a new replacement tx that will operate my old Rx's. So I'll have to look after my Dx6i just as well it's not my main set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert baker Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why can't they just make a decision and keep to one type,design or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 'Cos the EU* keeps moving the goalposts, Bert.... Pete (* and any other organisation that might have an interest) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Bert, market strategy otherwise we will all have our old gear, be totally happy and never buy a new one... Running currently a DX7 and a JR DSX11, both are DSM2, as well as my boy's DX7 SE. so between us we have more than 10 receivers, I will rather stock up a few receivers than plan to change.... VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert baker Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Blah. never did like football I still have a few early FF super7's and one has a Spektrum module in it and it still works fine. Edited By bert baker on 06/01/2015 13:23:11 Stock up,Yeah thats OK until they broadcast something else on it. Edited By bert baker on 06/01/2015 13:26:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Posted by Vecchio Austriaco on 06/01/2015 13:19:04: Bert, market strategy otherwise we will all have our old gear, be totally happy and never buy a new one... Running currently a DX7 and a JR DSX11, both are DSM2, as well as my boy's DX7 SE. so between us we have more than 10 receivers, I will rather stock up a few receivers than plan to change.... VA VA, you are OK the DSMx Rxs work fine with a DSM2 Tx, but a DSM2 rx won't work with a DSMx only Tx. So you'd actually be better buying DSMx Rx's then if you did ever change you'd be able to continue to carry on using these. Also while we may moan about the new regulations there are meant to ensure that all devices share the 2.4 ghz band in a harmonious manner , so reducing the possibility of "interference" locking out our radio on 2.4 and that's got to be good hasn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 They broadcast a lot of things in different forums - and I cannot belive that Spektrum gear is worse than others - but normally they are blamed for everything. Ever heard about JR problems? well they used the spektrum technology for a long time and nobody said anything. VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Thanks Frank So I can put my piggybank away for a while as I suppose DSMx will be longer on the market... VA, no money after Christmas department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangster Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I guess this is not just a Spektrum issue . Other protocols produced by other manufactures may also fall foul of the etsi change . Whilst it is accepted that we can continue to use the earlier protocols I am assuming that we will no longer be able to buy receivers to match our old transmitters. So do we stock up on receivers now or if we do will we then be stuffed if our transmitters pack up or we wanted to change them things have not changed on 35mhz in 30 years but seems those days have gone. DSM2 is the subject of this post but I assume we can we can also include s fhss and faast in the same concern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Gangster - apart from DSM2, FASST was affected, Futaba have already updated their Tx's and it should work fine with their older Rx's but it has been reported elsewhere that some 3rd party FASST rx's don't work reliably with the FASST system after the update. Other manufacturers FHSS systems seem to be compliant already, maybe FASST and DSM2 have been most affected as they were earlier protocols developed before the EU regulations started to be developed. For instance I just checked the Multiplex Mlink FHSS systems were all re-certified to the new standard (and previous one) last June Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 06/01/2015 15:08:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangster Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Frank to clarify please are you saying that the Futaba fhss systems are all compliant or will we see the disappearance s-fhss receivers in the shops presumably the next generation of transmitters might be backward comparable as appears to be the case with the 10j I also wonder if the 3rd party comparability could become a bigger issue I think that could be the case with the latest (dsm2) comparable spektrums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangster Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Edited to delete duplicate Edited By gangster on 06/01/2015 14:58:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Posted by gangster on 06/01/2015 14:57:21: Frank to clarify please are you saying that the Futaba fhss systems are all compliant or will we see the disappearance s-fhss receivers in the shops presumably the next generation of transmitters might be backward comparable as appears to be the case with the 10j I also wonder if the 3rd party comparability could become a bigger issue I think that could be the case with the latest (dsm2) comparable spektrums. If the only update made to TX firmware to implement the EU Directive (Listen before talk) is just that then the RX sould not be affected (ie the RX wont be aware of what the TX does before trasmitting a packet) BUT its a big but if any other tweaks to the TX firmware have been made on the transmitted data side of the system then compatible RX may well be affected and lest be honest its the clone manufacturers responsibility to update thier RX firmware, and its not in the commercial interests of the main brands to support or encourage this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 You'd need to check with Futaba but see previous edit re Multiplex Mlink, I can't see Futaba FHSS/S-FHSS being any different as they have been aware of the new regs for a while. I think the duty cycle of FHSS systems means they have no issue complying with the revised regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Re Futaba S-FHSS this is the section in the latest update for the 14sg so I don't think you need to fear the disapperance of S-FHSS rx's 11.【Area Code is EUROPE only】 FASST and S-FHSS applied to EN300 328 V.1.8.1 FASST MULTI CH mode, 7CH mode and S-FHSS apply to EN300 328 V.1.8.1adaptive system. (V.1.8.1 is the latest version of European regulation for 2.4GHz radio equipment which can output RF power less than 100mW.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 06/01/2015 14:44:43: Gangster - apart from DSM2, FASST was affected, Futaba have already updated their Tx's and it should work fine with their older Rx's but it has been reported elsewhere that some 3rd party FASST rx's don't work reliably with the FASST system after the update. Other manufacturers FHSS systems seem to be compliant already, maybe FASST and DSM2 have been most affected as they were earlier protocols developed before the EU regulations started to be developed. For instance I just checked the Multiplex Mlink FHSS systems were all re-certified to the new standard (and previous one) last June Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 06/01/2015 15:08:16 I think you are right Frank it is early systems like FASST and DSM2 that are most affected. The Jeti system, like Multiplex, has been compliant with the new regs since mid 2014 and is still fully backwards compatible with earlier gear. My understanding is that Futaba FHSS, T-FHSS, and FASSTest are all OK, and even FASST can be updated on the newer 14SG and 18MZ Tx (but might cause problems with compatible Rx). Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONZO Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm afraid it affects FrSky as well DSM2 and FASST. This has been discussed at length on this and other forums for some time and it looks like its shaping up to be the 'train crash' I feared. Updating where possible can mean many upleasant consequencies, such as:- FrSky X series Tx means that D series become unuseable plus you would have to update all your X series Rx to work correctly. Telemetry Rx are also covered in the revised spec. Newly manufactured/imported Spektrum Tx will no longer support DSM2 meaning your old stock of DSM2 Rx are unuseable. Updating your Futaba 14SG with the latest V5(EU version) software will result in all your FASST compatible Rx failing to work reliably or at all. This is my understanding from reading the many other threads on this issue. I look foward with some trepidation as the story continues to unfold. I've got lots of links, just ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hi chaps. Sorry to be a bit dense here. I was looking at buying a dx9 (not the black one), but from what Gonzo seems to be saying is that when software updates come through it will in effect remove the DSM2 compatability from the radio? Have I read too much into it and just get my radio before existing stock goes, and dsm2 with it? Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Simon, apparently not the software updates only affect the programming not the radio transmit modes, so if you get a Dx9 which is DSM2/DSMx then you should be OK. But if it needs to go in for repair and either gets replaced or the RF board replaced then it may come back DSMx only. You might want to post the question on this thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2138241&page=8 Andy Kunz of Spektrum seems to monitor it and seems knowledgeble on this. Or E-mail Horizon with you question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightypeesh Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Thanks for that Frank, I will speak to horizon later. Now just to broach the subject of yet another rc purchase with my beautiful wife........ Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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