Complete beginner - recommendations please

[Dave dave 1]

Hi all, mods please move this if it's in the wrong place.

I'm completely new to model flying, and don't really know anything about rc planes. I could use some advice to make sure I don't buy the wrong thing.

What I'm looking for is a cheap plane with full controls, not one of the ones where only the rudder works or something. It seems that means 4ch and up, is that right? And I'd like something that flies nice and slowly, too. Other than that, I don't care much about looks or other features - that I know of, maybe you're going to educate me

Is there any particular go-to beginner plane you'd all recommend?

I've seen this, which seems cheap for what you're getting:

http://www.gearbest.com/rc-airplanes/pp_226788.html?wid=21

Is that a reasonable buy, or is there something there to avoid?

This seems more like what I was looking for, but it's quite a bit more expensive once I add batteries and a controller:

http://www.gearbest.com/rc-airplanes/pp_354187.html

Would it be better to spend a bit more? I don't want to spend too much, but then I also don't want to realise a couple of weeks after I get the plane that I should have spent more.

TIA for your input.

[cymaz]

Right, 2Daves.....flying is great fun, can be stressful, can be exciting, can be infuriating. It's never boring.

Before you do anything or spend any money, find your nearest model flying club and visit them. This can be found on the BMFA web site under "clubs" . Any club should welcome you with open arms. If not, move on.

Have a go on the club trainer ( the club should have one if not ask about lessons etc. They should be free of charge. You can have 3 lessons on the club insurance.

There are a number of great trainers out there, glow and electric. It's down to you and your instructor what you end up with, ( there could be several reasons why your instructor would recommend a certain plane for you to buy and learn on).

Learn to take a set-back or crash as part of life. We don't like having crashes but they do happen. Be respectful of other fliers and club neighbours. Listen and read a lot. Model flying is also about aviation history, aeronautics, wind, weather. Most of all it's a hobby and is fun.

Rant over

[Dave Hopkin]

Hi dave dave...

Firstly I agree with all of Cymaz's post - what I would add is....

After finding a club (as Cymaz says most clubs will arrange a few flights under dual control to give you a taster free of charge) so you dont need to invest in anything yet

At the club discuss what Radio Gear you should buy we all have our own preferences but its best if you get one that is compatible with your instructors so he can buddy fly with you (dual control) - you might also want to consider a RC Flight Simulator one you plug your transmitter into - they are not 100% simulations but they will teach you a lot

As for a first plane, dont got for the one you posted in the OP - its far too small and you will find you will only be able to fly it on flat calm conditions or indoors - the ideal first plane is a dedicated trainer - again there are loads to choose from and we all have our personal favorites but the characteristics you should be looking for are:

About 48-60" wingspan, high wings, decent power but not overpowered, some dihedral, again discuss with your instructor before investing

[kc]

Don't buy that plane you mentioned! It's too small. Anyway it's far better to buy a separate radio and get the brand used by your local club - quite likely Spektrum but it could be other brands. As Cymaz said visit your local club and see what their instructor prefers to instruct on.

( one reason for not buying a small plane apart from it being difficult to see is that in order to fly solo at most clubs you need to pass the A Certicifcate test which can only be done with a heavier model.)

Edited By kc on 06/09/2016 17:59:42

[kc]

Ah great minds think alike! Dave H said much the same as me but 2 minutes earlier.

[kc]

Get a good book on RC planes - such as this David Boddington one here

It's an out of print book sold secondhand at a cheap price but covers all the thing s you need to know at the start, But it was written before modern brushless electric power was developed so get info on electric here on the forum..

Alternatively this book by Peter Miller 'High Flying on a low Budget' which is still in print but again does not cover modern electrc power. ( the author is often on the forum here)

[cymaz]

I think we all said more or less the same thing....really great minds at work here chaps !

[Dave dave 1]

Oh, have I missed something fundamental? Is it not legal just to pop down to the nearest park (when it's not busy) and have a go? I was thinking smallish, light, and slow was important for safety in a public space, apart from anything else.

If I don't want to fly with a club, is that an option? I was more thinking about another toy for the park than a hobby all of its own.

[kc]

Yes, we all gave the same advice - but we get this sort of enquiry about once a week don't we? Everybody here is always happy to advise newcomers!

A couple more points about the plane mentioned. Buying direct from China has certain drawbacks. One is you will probably get caught for customs duty and VAT on top plus a fee for handling payment of duty which will make it much more expensive. The fact that this item is not available from their EC warehouse might suggest the radio TX does not meet the latest EC requirements. If you import it yourself you would be responsible for ensuring it meets these regulations. far better to buy a branded radio from a UK or EC source.

[Dave Hopkin]

Park flying is possible, but most local authorities dont like it happening - I fly with two clubs who user local authority green spaces, we have agreements with them regarding what we can do, what we fly and when we fly them, both authorities insist on 3rd party insurance (provided by the BMFA)

Learning on your own is possible, probably much slower and with a greater likelyhood of crashing (making insurance all the more important!)

[Keith Simmons]

You can buy 'toy planes' anywhere and nothing to stop you flying at a local park, but I won't advise it. Sorry

Accidents do happen and what we learn, we reduce the impact to the bare minimum and that's why we need insurance when things go badly wrong.

You have not mentioned about yourself and if you can drive, would you trust a complete beginner to drive a car alone on the roads?

Edited By Keith Simmons on 06/09/2016 19:09:50

[cymaz]

Posted by Dave dave 1 on 06/09/2016 18:40:21:

Oh, have I missed something fundamental? Is it not legal just to pop down to the nearest park (when it's not busy) and have a go? I was thinking smallish, light, and slow was important for safety in a public space, apart from anything else.

If I don't want to fly with a club, is that an option? I was more thinking about another toy for the park than a hobby all of its own.

2 Daves,

You should read THIS. I'm not being a killjoy......just keeping you from potential trouble and a hell of a legal bill

[ChrisB]

Welcome Dave. I'd echo what others have said. The key thing with learning with a club is that the site will be suitable for flying, unlike many parks. The club will have all the expertise to assist you including a trainer and instructors to assist you. By doing this you'll not waste money and morale on a model that could keep crashing. By joining a club you'll also be a member of the British Model Flying Association. This national body will provide you with third party insurance. As with all insurance, you need to operate within the law for it to be valid. **LINK**

You mention a toy for the park. Just be aware that even if it looks like a toy and is marketed like its a toy. If its got propellers and even if it feels light, if it hits you it'll hurt and even small props will bite you. Hence learning properly, with experienced people on a dedicated site at least until you're competent is the best approach.

A useful webpage to look at is **LINK** and http://www.modelflying.co.uk/news/article/getting-started-/2206/

Where in the country are you?

 

Cheers

CB

 

Edited By ChrisB on 06/09/2016 19:50:08

Edited By ChrisB on 06/09/2016 19:50:40

[Dave dave 1]

First up, thanks for making me think more about the risks. I'd already given it some thought, but clearly not enough from what you're saying.

I was thinking that there must be some smallish, light, slow-flying plane that needs maybe a 30-50 metre radius around me, and that as long as I picked a quiet time in the park, the middle of an empty football pitch would do. I don't want to risk killing or maiming someone, but I'll accept the possibility that if everything goes wrong I might give someone a black eye - I could do the same throwing the frisbee we often play with, but we keep our distance from others and so far have been OK.

Is there a plane that would be suitable for that? If the limitation that goes with that is that it can only be used on calm days or indoors, then I'd accept that.

I saw these, and love the models:

https://www.elitemodelsonline.co.uk/Aircraft/By-Manufacturers/Ares/22311-/Sopwith-Pup-UltraMicro-RTF-with-Hitec-Red

Would they be safe-ish in the kind of scenario above? To be clear, I'm certainly not blase about the risks, I'd like something risk-free if that exists.

If not...

Posted by ChrisB on 06/09/2016 19:47:03:

Where in the country are you?

North London. Is that good or bad for flying? It's bad for astronomy, good for most other things that require clubs

[Dave Hopkin]

The plane you linked to weight 20g - thats less than a packet of crisps - dont even think about flying that outdoors, even in the slightest of breezes it will be blown away - thats purely for indoor flying

As for flying around yourself at 50m - again thats not a good idea - at some point you will be looking directly into the sun

You really want to learn to fly circuits, take off (into the wind) climb out to maybe 100 ft, turn across wind (keeping the sun at your back) turn down wind fly straight and level, tiurn cross wind and then upwind to fly down the same track as your take off line - remembering that when you are flying towards yourself the roll controls are reverse

Later on you can add in figure of 8's, circuits and bumps low passes, loops and bunts, knife edge, inverted etc etc

[cymaz]

A few north London clubs

here

here

here

[Shaunie]

Hi Dave^2,

Welcome to the forum and the words of wisdom so freely given here 😂.

The sad thing is it's all absolutely true. I hope you do join a club and have a successful flying career. When you can fly you will realise the realities about park flying and what is safe and achievable. It's not the park flying with a small foamie, it's park flying with a small foamie by a person who cannot fly that is the problem.

I learnt to fly out of a club environment and had no success until a friend who was a competent pilot taught me. In a club would have been easier even allowing for the fact that I had free access to suitable fields.

I still fly from a private field at work but the banter at a club is almost as much fun as flying to me (I say almost!).

Shaunie.

[ChrisB]

Posted by Dave dave 1 on 06/09/2016 21:24:29:

First up, thanks for making me think more about the risks. I'd already given it some thought, but clearly not enough from what you're saying.

I was thinking that there must be some smallish, light, slow-flying plane that needs maybe a 30-50 metre radius around me, and that as long as I picked a quiet time in the park, the middle of an empty football pitch would do. I don't want to risk killing or maiming someone, but I'll accept the possibility that if everything goes wrong I might give someone a black eye - I could do the same throwing the frisbee we often play with, but we keep our distance from others and so far have been OK.

Is there a plane that would be suitable for that? If the limitation that goes with that is that it can only be used on calm days or indoors, then I'd accept that.

I saw these, and love the models:

https://www.elitemodelsonline.co.uk/Aircraft/By-Manufacturers/Ares/22311-/Sopwith-Pup-UltraMicro-RTF-with-Hitec-Red

Would they be safe-ish in the kind of scenario above? To be clear, I'm certainly not blase about the risks, I'd like something risk-free if that exists.

If not...

Posted by ChrisB on 06/09/2016 19:47:03:

Where in the country are you?

North London. Is that good or bad for flying? It's bad for astronomy, good for most other things that require clubs

Once you start flying regularly, you become a meteorologist. Its amazing how very few days there are when the wind doesn't blow such that a small, light model would fly properly. A Sopwith Pup, Spitfire or other such model are not ideal for a raw beginner. A trainer model such as an Eflite Apprentice is best. Flying is not risk free and never will be and yes a frisbee could cause more injury than an ultralite model, but you are more likely to be successful in a club rather than try and go it alone and the risk of injury, damage or general annoyance will be significantly reduced in a club environment.

Most clubs are friendly and will help you to go solo.

[Denis Watkins]

As Chris says Dave, there are very few absolute "calm" days. Though weather and wind are subjective to your flying skill and your model, in 2015 the Met Office reported just 5 days as calm. 198 days, were a combination of Gale force wind, or Terential rain. Of the remaining 162 days of moderate to strong winds, we flew on 38 days at my club.

Of course some good flying days are missed due to work and family commitments, but you need a craft that will meet the outdoor requirements.

The above analysis was to report to the landowner just how little we got for our money lol

Edited By Denis Watkins on 07/09/2016 08:18:37

[Peter Miller]

There is one model that you might have a reasonable chance with on your own. the Horizon Hobby E Flite Apprentice.

**LINK**

WE had a total novice come to the club with one of these and after a quick check flight by a member he flew it from take off to landing by himself.

His only previous experience had been two buddy box flights over a year before.

Having said all that, the advice to join a club is really the best and cheapest way to go. Trust me on this.

Edited By Peter Miller on 07/09/2016 08:30:57

[Ernie]

Hi Dave, It is easier to fly a large model than a wee one. You can see it much better, and as you will of course find out, it's easier to see if its coming towards you or vanishing over the horizon.

Also it seems to fly much slower, and thus gives you more time to think about what to do, and all the electronic trickery fits in easily

What about a big glider say 2 meters span, with a small electric motor, either mounted above the wing, or in the nose?

And of course you could build it; A lovely box of laser cut wood, and little plastic bags full, of goodies. So many flyers are missing out on the building aspect of our hobby. I suppose that the downside is that you will need to find quite a few hours and persuade SWIMBO that the smells and balsa dust are wonderful

And yes do join a club

ernie and, as you are new to all this.....SWIMBO she who must instantly be obayed

[Chris North 3]

Dave, I can only give some feedback based on my own experience entering the hobby about 18 months ago. First and foremost your first few flights will determine whether the hobby becomes a short lived whim or an addiction. Crashes, broken wings &/ props, paying for replacements and waiting for them to arrive will generally lead to it being a whim. Flying as many batteries as you have will mean it will be an addiction so be warned.

The best thing to do is to try to avoid the crashes if you can and so having someone help to teach you fly is way better than struggling by yourself.

A lot of entry level planes come with transmitters in the package but this can be limiting. Like any new activity, once you get the basics sorted you tend to jump up the first few steps quickly. This means that you will soon be wanting to go for a bigger, better, more sexy plane and will need equipment to suit. an entry level transmitter may not allow you to do this.

I am based in Thailand and while there are a lot of flying clubs here I didn't know any when I started. So my approach was to buy a DX6i transmitter and flight simulator combo which meant I could learn to fly without the expense of replacing parts. I crashed a lot but learnt a lot too. 18 months in I have just upgraded to a Futaba 10J partly because my DX6i started sending the wrong signals! but also because I now have a model with flaps and needed 7 channels.

When I did finally get a plane (home built from depron using a Flitetest plan) I was able to keep the model in the air most of the time. However crashes do happen and you need to be in a place away from other people and houses etc to make sure you limit the damage to just your plane.

It wasn't until I found a club that I realised the benefit of having other people to talk to and experienced people to help with my flying technique. With more confidence I was able to move on to an ARTF and bought the hobbyking 1400mm Super Decathlon. I have found this a great plane to learn on as it is big enough to see and is very stable even in wind. The model has now been donated as the club trainer for the local kids who can't afford a plane.

If I was doing it again, based on what I know now, I would start at a club and spend plenty of time on a simulator as well as having buddy box flying lessons.

But be careful - that "toy" could well turn into an obsession!

[kc]

Two other things I noticed about the model Dave proposed to buy....

1. range is only 80 to 100 metres This might just be enough for a small model ( or might not ) but it would be useless for a normal size model which needs range as far as you can see.

2. The transmitter is Mode 2 ( throttle left) and cannot be changed. Some clubs train on Mode 1 ( throttle right ) although it is the less popular mode now. But if you join a club you should fly the club mode which means someone else can fly your model in case of problems and you might be lucky enough to get a chance to have a go with someone elses model. Branded transmitters can be changed from Mode 2 to Mode 1 fairly easily but best to buy the radio already set for the Mode you need.rather than risk a warranty problem because you took the back off to change Mode.

[cymaz]

I think dave dave 1 has gone away to think about it

I hope he doesn't make a complete Horlicks of it.

[Dave dave 1]

Thanks to all for your inputs. From what you're saying, joining one of the local clubs doesn't sound like a bad plan if I want a new hobby - but I'm just after a new toy to take to the park now and then. (Actually, the hobby sounds really tempting... But I don't have time right now.)

Posted by Ernie on 07/09/2016 09:08:53:

What about a big glider say 2 meters span, with a small electric motor, either mounted above the wing, or in the nose?

And of course you could build it; A lovely box of laser cut wood, and little plastic bags full, of goodies. So many flyers are missing out on the building aspect of our hobby. I suppose that the downside is that you will need to find quite a few hours and persuade SWIMBO that the smells and balsa dust are wonderful

The glider sounds perfect - is there one available for <£100? I don't mind building a kit, but then I wouldn't go out of my way to do so either.