2017 Mass Build

[Geoff S]

Posted by kc on 05/10/2016 18:15:48:

The 32 pound is just for the balsa & ply. The Basic 3D has a large 1/32 birch ply doubler so needs about 15 inches by 4 twice so needs about 5 pounds worth of ply to be ordered! using 3/32 Lite ply would halve that cost and would seem OK as the fuselage is not bent at that point. Again the small amount of1/2 balsa accounts for 3.60 in the costing. Experienced modellers would laminate offcuts of 1/4 to get the 1/2 balsa parts and also make 1/4 birch ply from two layers of 1/8 birch etc.to save ordering extra.

The Ballerina I built also needed quite a long piece of thin ply (1/32"?) but I only had a square piece in stock so I just did each doubler in 2 pieces butt joined. So a long piece isn't necessary if you don't have it. Mine's joined about half way along the wing cut-out and doesn't seem to have compromised the structure at all.

So, like most builds, people will modify the design either to suit their own requirements or to suit what materials they have to hand. What was nice about the Ballerina was having the designer on hand to advise and also encourage us to alter his baby to satisfy ourselves. The Basic 3D looks like a good candidate. I'll enjoy watching how builders create models to their own needs/wishes. It's a bit too near the Limbo Dancer I already have for me and, as I said earlier, I have other projects on hand.

Geoff

[Martyn K]

Posted by Simon Feather on 07/10/2016 09:41:13:

As already suggested, the Basic 3D could be a good candidate. I have actually just been contemplating building a Kwik Fli as I quite fancy a retro pattern ship, so the suggestion of the Flea Fly is also of interest, though like Martyn I think it's possibly a bit small... so if that's chosen I'd probably scale it up. Is the Kwik Fli too big at 59-60" for a mass build? Possibly.

Simon

Happy to redraw the KF3 for a 40 ic or 4S 3300 electric. It would make a nice sized model of about 54" span

Martyn

[IanN]

Posted by Martyn K on 07/10/2016 14:49:28:

Happy to redraw the KF3 for a 40 ic or 4S 3300 electric. It would make a nice sized model of about 54" span

Martyn

Mass build subject or not, that might prove a popular model

[Paul C.]

I am looking at the flea fli as I have a number of 3s 2.2 lipo's on only one model at the moment. Just thinking if we had a Fli for the mb and folks could pick either the flea, Kwik or scaled down Kwik, might increase the numbers.

Paul.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Simon Feather on 07/10/2016 09:41:13:

I am definitely up for another mass build - for me, the enjoyment is about comparing notes and being part of a social activity, and looking forward to meet ups (at Greenacres, or wherever) to compare models - so everyone building (variants of) the same model is important to me. I'd probably build regardless because of the camaderie, unless I really hated the model chosen.

As already suggested, the Basic 3D could be a good candidate. I have actually just been contemplating building a Kwik Fli as I quite fancy a retro pattern ship, so the suggestion of the Flea Fly is also of interest, though like Martyn I think it's possibly a bit small... so if that's chosen I'd probably scale it up. Is the Kwik Fli too big at 59-60" for a mass build? Possibly.

So ... when does the voting proper start? Is there a formal mechanism for making suggestions? Or is this it....

Looking forward to it!

Simon

Pretty much sums up my feelings as well, where to suggest something ? in here will do for now. I fancy the 3d myself just need to convince others and Martyn he should build a back up model for the fun fly events

John

[Don Fry]

I used to have a basic 3D, suffered elevator flutter, got it back with half of the horizontal stabiliser/elevator missing. So that says it is easy to fly, but the replacement tail had stiffer materials and a mass balance. Demise was a error when inverted, fast, and near the ground. The pieces were all fairly even in size, so no obvious weak areas.

Mine was painted up as a cartoon dragon, this sort of design rewards freestyle paint finishes.

[kc]

I would go along with a Kwik Fli 3 for 4s3000. having the plan from Outerzone printed at 90 percent would give about 53 inch span. It would be handy for everyone to have a full size plan although just having a full size rib plus having dimension to draw direct on balsa would do for such a simple design. Having someone work out the hatch and noseleg changes for electric would be handy. ( simple noseleg this time Martyn?)

Note that there are other versions of Kwik Fli and a Flea fli+10 here

[Don Fry]

I used to have a basic 3D, suffered elevator flutter, got it back with half of the horizontal stabiliser/elevator missing. So that says it is easy to fly, but the replacement tail had stiffer materials and a mass balance. Demise was a error when inverted, fast, and near the ground. The pieces were all fairly even in size, so no obvious weak areas.

Mine was painted up as a cartoon dragon, this sort of design rewards freestyle paint finishes.

[IanN]

Posted by Paul C. on 07/10/2016 15:09:22:

I am looking at the flea fli as I have a number of 3s 2.2 lipo's on only one model at the moment. Just thinking if we had a Fli for the mb and folks could pick either the flea, Kwik or scaled down Kwik, might increase the numbers.

Paul.

Beginning to sound like there might be some impetus growing behind a flock of Flis

[Martyn K]

Posted by kc on 07/10/2016 15:20:05:

I would go along with a Kwik Fli 3 for 4s3000. having the plan from Outerzone printed at 90 percent would give about 53 inch span. It would be handy for everyone to have a full size plan although just having a full size rib plus having dimension to draw direct on balsa would do for such a simple design. Having someone work out the hatch and noseleg changes for electric would be handy. ( simple noseleg this time Martyn?)

Note that there are other versions of Kwik Fli and a Flea fli+10 here

Ha ha - yes - not one of my better ideas

If I redraw this into CAD and export as DXF, it mans that a kit of parts could be made available very easily. A simple parts kit of wing ribs and fuselage formers plus any other small ply parts (U/C plates etc.) could be made available through a number of sources.

The idea is quite appealing - I may just have a go at this anyway. 40 ic for me though

Martyn

[Simon Feather]

Happy to redraw the KF3 for a 40 ic or 4S 3300 electric. It would make a nice sized model of about 54" span

Martyn

now there's an offer it would be hard to refuse! I have a NIB SC40 looking for a home... I agree with Ian, that would probably be a very popular model

Simon

[Martyn K]

That's 3 models then - I would have to build 2 to prove it

Edit - being a bit serious about it, I could get the plans drawn up and at least one model built by Christmas..possibly 2 if I build them both at the same time..

It really is a nice easy build - much easier than the Ballerina for example

Edited By Martyn K on 07/10/2016 15:44:47

[Bob Cotsford]

Now I could be drawn into a Mass Build of a KF3, I have several 40s not currently earning their keep - OS FSR, Rossi and SC iirc

[Martyn K]

mmmmmmmmmmm Rossi. Want one..

[IanN]

Three different sizes of the same model sounds like it might have some appeal

Construction almost identical on all, which ticks the "everyone building together" box, with the size options widening the appeal depending on which peeps fancy, and what gear they already have available

Could be a winner

[kc]

It would seem the Kwik Fli 3 is 50 years old next year!

a set of ribs is available for the Graupner 60 inch version from here - not as cheap as many other designs though. ( about a pound for each rib! )

The Ballerina was a little more tricky than I expected - these old aerobatic designs should be much quicker to build especially if we use a nice light piece of solid balsa instead of the built up version on the plan.

Do we know of a source of suitable bubble canopies?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Canopy, make a plug n use a pop bottle, easy

[Martyn K]

Vortex do bubble canopies. If I has a plug made, I am sure they would be happy to produce canopies at about £9 each

[Paul C.]

Just downloaded flea fli plan from outerzone as a pdf file, next step presumably is to copy to a flash drive and head off to staples to get it printed. How do they know what size to print it? If they ask me what should I tell them ! Am I missing something obvious here 😨

Paul.

[kc]

I think you should say print at 100 percent, but I have not tried it yet. Or 120 percent etc, etc if that is what you need.

But of course you can print it yourself on an A4 printer by specifying 'poster' in the print menu on Acrobat ( latest version anyway )  Specify 100percent and 'cut marks'   then you can tape all the A4 sheets together ( Magic tape is good for this )   I trim one side at the cut mark and overlap it exactly on the uncut matching part.  Magic tape on front and rear.

In Acrobat 2015 version you can select area to print ( 'camera' icon)  and print that as a poster at 100percent.   Then the Flea fli fuselage and formers will print in 6 sheets.   ( don't tell Martyn - I think he bought the plan and it took a while to even find the plan! )

 

Edited By kc on 07/10/2016 18:06:18

[Paul C.]

Thanks kc will give it a go 👍

[Piers Bowlan]

I don't know where you live Paul C. but in the unlikely event that you live in West Sussex, you could take your flash drive to these people here and they will reproduce your plan to any size you like. Just tell Nigel what wing span you want and he will print it out. A couple of A0 sheets will probably cost you a fiver. I have had a lot of plans and line drawings reproduced by him. He might be able to post them to you if you don't mind them being folded but I don't know what he would charge for that.

Edited By Piers Bowlan on 07/10/2016 19:33:58

[Simon Feather]

It may also be worth noting that Aerofred (aerofred.com) also have the Flea Fli and KF3 plans, and (for a price!) they will post out printed copies of the plans - they can even print on tracing paper and polyester and ship in envelopes or tubes. They ship from Portugal so the poor rate of the pound doesn't help their prices. But worth considering perhaps. I like the idea of getting teh plan on tracing paper, no tricks needed for building the 'other' wing! Seems a Flea Fli +10 (42" wingspan) was also produced.

Flea fli plan on plain paper folded - one sheet - is quoted at 13.6euros (about £12.20 today), but the KF3 plan is four sheets (last sheet has prints of the original decals on it) for which they are quoting about 36euro on tracing paper. I'm sure they could do it without the last page if you wanted! Not cheap, but might be convenient. If any of these models are selected for the MB, perhaps we can get a deal through Traplet on the plans.

Simon

[Paul C.]

Thanks for the info Piers but I have just locked horns with the Acrobat printing functionality and have managed to produce a plan thanks to kc's advice. Simon, not come across aerofred but sounds very interesting with check it out. I must say that the flea fli looks just the right size of model I have been looking for and should be a straight forward build.

Paul.

[IanN]

Not wanting to get ahead of things here (although there does seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for the Kwik Fli, Flea Fli, intermediate / .40 sized KF3 combination) but if anyone is interested another way of getting a Flea Fli plan is to scour ebay and the second hand mag sellers. It was a free plan in Dec 1968 RCM&E

Don't be expecting any detailed build instructions in the (brief) accompanying article though- there aren't any! - though tbh they aren't really needed