Former Member Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I still think that the "tipping point" for electric cars wont happen until the recharging time can complete with the refueling time of conventional cars - perhaps exchangeable battery packs are an answer or as I suspect are electric cars going to be betamax/squarial technology and ultimately rendered obsolete by something like liquid hydrogen powered cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 All well and good Percy for short/medium distance journeys - but if I want to go on holiday with the car i need the legs and fast refuel times liquid fuel gives me (and that doesnt have to be oil based liquid) - exchangeable battery packs might be the answer (if they standardise them) but even fast recharge points are going to mean a lot of dead time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 15/02/2018 22:02:36: All well and good Percy for short/medium distance journeys - but if I want to go on holiday with the car i need the legs and fast refuel times liquid fuel gives me (and that doesnt have to be oil based liquid) - exchangeable battery packs might be the answer (if they standardise them) but even fast recharge points are going to mean a lot of dead time You could argue that's a big safety factor in that you'd have to take a regular break to "recharge" rather than driving non-stop without a decent break for hours on end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 I spent a couple of years working as a field service engineer based in N.Essex and would often have to fit in calls to Birmingham and Southampton in a single day. Unless you wanted a 14 hr day, taking a break was out of the question outside of a brief 'comfort stop' and quick sandwich. An electric vehicle on the lines of even the very best that we have today, would have been useless. Was glad to pack that job in - paid well, but who wants to be the richest man in the graveyard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 9 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Posted by Cuban8 on 16/02/2018 08:03:19: I spent a couple of years working as a field service engineer based in N.Essex and would often have to fit in calls to Birmingham and Southampton in a single day. Unless you wanted a 14 hr day, taking a break was out of the question outside of a brief 'comfort stop' and quick sandwich. An electric vehicle on the lines of even the very best that we have today, would have been useless. Was glad to pack that job in - paid well, but who wants to be the richest man in the graveyard? maybe we will have to change our ways and transporting people by car will become only for shorter distances. Maybe the electric car can never be as good as a petrol car but that does not mean it will not still replace them. There are many examples in history when a technology has peaked but we then settle for something not as good for everyday use (mostly for economical reasons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 The latest London black cabs are propelled entirely by an electric motor and batteries, which gives them a range of about 80 miles. They are also fitted with a small i.c. engine that acts as a generator to extend the range to 400 miles on a full tank. This technology could be the best answer until the charge time problem is solved - it must be mechanically simpler than a normal hybrid, which has to have a gearbox to accommodate both powertrains. The cabs are built in Coventry, by a company owned by Chinese company Geely, who also own Volvo. I was a bit puzzled by Paul's statement "There are no new electric cars". We've just had the new Leaf, which joins existing offerings from Renault, VW, Tesla, BMW, Kia, Hyundai (to name the ones that first occurred to me). Soon to come is the more affordable Tesla Model 3, Jaguar I-Pace SUV and I'm sure many more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 " it must be mechanically simpler than a normal hybrid, which has to have a gearbox to accommodate both powertrains." Toyota already did that with their hybrid drivetrain, about 15 years ago. Two electric motors, both can function as generators and there is no gearbox. Can run off either entirely battery or entirely IC, up to around 45mph. It's an already thoroughly debugged system. "Yes, but we only manage to turn 30% of it into motion the rest is heat, an electric car converts over 80% of the energy into motion and also recovers the energy when you slow down." That statement ignores the losses during power station operation and the losses due to electric grid and losses due to battery charging. Which when added up are not much better than running IC. Even the best power stations are around 60% efficient IIRC. The electric car system is no magic bullet for energy use reduction. Well, it may be, but mainly a side effect of being awkward to use so that we just don't drive very much. Edited By Nigel R on 16/02/2018 09:09:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Posted by Percy Verance on 15/02/2018 21:53:33 Hydrogen is fine in theory Dave, but the high pressures involved in actually filling vehicles, along with storage risks and possible pipework leaks at delivery points etc tend to move it onto the back burner. A British firm is working on a system to store hydrogen in quick change cylinders at low preassures. They have featured on this forum as they have been powering a UAV with it but I can not remeber where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 best of luck to them, but various governments have determined our near term direction already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 The new black cabs that Trevor Crook talked / threaded about: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Crook Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 That's interesting concerning Toyota, Nigel. However, they still seem to be using a "conventional" hybrid system with a CVT gearbox, even in the latest Prius. GM sold the Vauxhall Ampera here for a couple of years, which was electric drive/i.c. generator, but it wasn't a big seller and they dropped it a year or two ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Maybe this is the way forwards.... Japan already has 80 Hydrogen fueling points and 42 in California **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Anyway, there is insufficient power in the National Grid to accommodate electric cars. In fact, they are closing several Coal fired ones down and not building any more. Radcliffe-on-soar is penned for closure. Electric cars won't happen, as this would overload the grid and cause blackouts. simple. All coal power stations will be closed by 2025. Currently coal accounts for 9.6% At max usage, in winter, the Grid can go high as 87% of capacity, add another 26million vehicles using electric would probably add 8-16 GW to the grid demand, where it currently is at 40GW at 4pm, today. So a total of 60GW would cause blackouts, where demand outstrips supply. Somehow, the numbers don't add up... **LINK** Current electricity demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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