German WW2 Insignia

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I don't feel that scale modelling in any way celebrates or legitimises the evil regime that abused a Hindu peace symbol. If I choose to model a German aircraft of the period, it's because I find it technically interesting or an attractive aircraft. Applying a swastika is no different to ensuring that other details are represented as accurately as possible.

[Bob Cotsford]

Same as Martin, if the original had a swastika then the model should also have one, otherwise are you also going to omit guns and bomb mounts too? Better stick to civil prototypes then!

[Cuban8]

You are building a scale model, so therefore if the original had a swastika then a swastika it should have. Why there should be any other motive under suspicion, I find baffling.

Just as an aside, my father and two uncles were illtreated as POW workers on 'The Railway' by the Japanese in Thailand, one of my uncles never returned home. Japanese WW2 attrocities, which I won't go into here, are well known and documented, yet the Rising Sun insignia is never given a second thought, except by those who suffered under its symbology.

I never build axis aircraft myself, although an FW190 (the captured one, in allied colours) might be an exception, or possibly the little HK Me163 Komet but repainted to represent the Me 163B captured and repainted in 1945 for testing by the RAF. Eric Brown?

[simon barr]

It's ok to show a swastika in the UK, and even here in the Channel Islands, which were occupied during the war. However, in a lot of European countries, it is illegal, which is why you see models with a "squared off" swastika on the fin.

[brokenenglish]

Depends on whether you give priority to authenticity or to politics...

[Plummet]

I recall at one of the LMA shows at Cosford there was a German display team and that they were not permitted to display swastikas.

Also there was a German teacher visiting and he was buying books from the Museum Bookshop that he would not be allowed to buy at home because of illustrations containing them.

I write this from near Ilkley Moor where there is a prehistoric carved stone called the swastika stone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_Stone

Plummet

Edited By Plummet on 24/01/2019 12:54:00

Edited By Plummet on 24/01/2019 12:54:41

[Stearman65]

Back in the day I built the Pica / Dave Platt Focke Wolfe 190. In those days there didn't seem to be any qualms about a swastika on a scale model. IMO things have got more sensitive about it. Maybe the Holocaust denial movement has prompted it. I don't think it will bother me when I decide on a scheme, there's something about an authentic version. Incidentally, I found a version in all white with red Red Cross symbols, however, it still had the swastika on the fin. Just remembered I won the ODMAC Model of the year comp with the FW190, there's a picture somewhere if I can find it.

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Don Fry]

Percy, you are correct, permitted in the right historical context, with permissions granted. But, on a toy aircraft, you are left to answer the question why you wish to create and exhibit the symbol, when an alternative colour scheme, say Romanian, the same airframe has not got this symbol.

And I don't think it is correct to criticise German attitudes to the trauma that resulted from their adoption of a National Socialist government.

[Engine Doctor]

You can't re-write history . It happened , fact, the Swastika was there symbol ,fact , so producing a correct model of that period should be correct. Political correctness has gone too far IMO and our society is too soft . Its not as if you are celebrating the Nazi . I'm not sure if it's true but I have been told that German schools don't teach about the horrors of there forefathers . It's a stupid approach as if you don't know where you came from then you won't know where your going and the same mistakes could happen again given the same or similar circumstances. Denying what happened is far more sinister IMO.

[Former Member]

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[Stearman65]

Posted by Don Fry on 24/01/2019 14:59:06:

But, on a toy aircraft, you are left to answer the question why you wish to create and exhibit the symbol, when an alternative colour scheme, say Romanian, the same airframe has not got this symbol.

I think what we are talking about couldn't be classed a toy aircraft.

For those looking for alternative schemes fro the Storch in particular, this link takes you to a site with potentially numerous schemes, I say potentially as when I tried to register, it looks like the domain is defunct & for sale. However there are some thumb nail images that could be investigated.

Since posting I investigated the link, if you scroll down to the bottom of the page there is a back link, click that & it opens another section with a lot more thumb nail images, unfortunately, they a too small to enlarge.

**LINK**

Edited By Stearman65 on 24/01/2019 16:34:44

Edited By Stearman65 on 24/01/2019 16:44:00

[Engine Doctor]

Posted by Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:26:56:

If we're being truly factual ED, the swastika wasn't a German symbol, it was adopted by the National Socialists, a political party..........

And as pointed out at the start of the thread, it is actually a religeous symbol. And I rather suspect this thread may get out of hand at some point..........so this is my parting shot with this one.

Edited By Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:28:25

Hi Percy . It shouldn't get out of hand , just a discussion surely. 

Yes the swastika was a religious symbol but didn't the tails face the opposite direction? 

Whatever it was it shouldn't, be wiped from history just because it offends a few .

Edited By Engine Doctor on 24/01/2019 16:48:06

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Pete B]

Posted by Percy Verance on 24/01/2019 16:26:56:

And as pointed out at the start of the thread, it is actually a religeous symbol. And I rather suspect this thread may get out of hand at some point..........so this is my parting shot with this one.

I can only think that might happen if someone indicated their approval of its display in connection with its political overtones, rather than as an historically-accurate scale detail, Percy.

The thread has been conducted exactly I would have expected here so far and I do not anticipate it going in any adverse direction

Pete

[SIMON CRAGG]

The latest Dynam FW190 shows a Swastika on the box, but comes with a cross on the decal sheet. I hummed and haahed a bit, but stuck to decal on the sheet they provided.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

How Germany deals with it is for them to decide, we have films and documentary showing the symbol, it's far from erased from history. Being used on a model wouldn't offend me, certain others that use it would.

[Stearman65]

Posted by SIMON CRAGG on 24/01/2019 17:34:44:

The latest Dynam FW190 shows a Swastika on the box, but comes with a cross on the decal sheet. I hummed and haahed a bit, but stuck to decal on the sheet they provided.

One site I looked at had 3 different schemes, 2 with swastikas & one without.

**LINK**

[The Wright Stuff]

Is it illegal to show a mirror image in Germany? Just curious...

[Don Fry]

Posted by The Wright Stuff on 24/01/2019 18:20:19:

Is it illegal to show a mirror image in Germany? Just curious...

Hire a barrister of International law. Germany is REALY twitchy about this. With justification. Leave it be.

It's not about erasing the Swastiks from history, Germany is still terrified of any return of that ideology.

In the U.K., who gives a monkeys. Different history.

[Robert Parker]

Hi All,

I agree with the opening post in that if it had one then one was applied to the model.

However, having built a civilian FW Condor. I chose the civilian version for two reasons, firstly, I have built a lot of military models and very few civilian aircraft and secondly it the civilian version had no gondola, turrets etc to assist in the build.

When I got to the finishing stage I did start asking myself questions about where it was correct or not and found that it was illegal in Germany and thought having found nothing to say you could not so in the UK so I did. The aircraft I modelled was the first aircraft (fixed wing) to fly from Berlin to New York and back in 1938.

BTW, the Finnish airforce also used a swastika during WWII but in blue. Just a thought, would a Finnish WWII model be allowed in Germany, still bearing the swastika albeit in blue?

Regards

Robert

[Former Member]

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[zz]

In addition to Finland, that basic symbol was used as the National marking in aircraft of Lithuania ? prior to WW2. As well as on examples of British and German aircraft of WW1. After all it was supposed to be symbol of good luck.

Some one wrote that kids in Germany may not be taught about some of their history. While on tour in Germany and Austria in 2015, we were told by our tour leader, a very cluey young Australian woman, that every student in those countries must attend a concentration camp during their high school years. Maybe some one can clarify that.

And I think that a swastika on a model aircraft is legitimate as any other scale marking. It is a model after all.

[Karl-Georg Krafft]

Hi kooka,

maybe I can help to clarify this. As a german history teacher I want to put two things right. German history between 1933 and 1945 is taught very intensively in every german school. On the other hand no student must visit a concentration camp, it is a completely optional decision of schools, students and their parents.

Karl-Georg