Big Trouble in Model Britain

[PatMc]

Haven't had time to watch the programme yet but hopefully I will in the next day or two.

I didn't built any plastic models until probably the late '70's when my son was old enough to show an interest. Together we made loads of dinosaurs, ships, tanks aeroplanes & Star Trek/Wars models.

In my younger days I did make a number of "solid" scale aeroplane models from kits & scratch built using Aeromodeller & Model Aircraft scale plans. Most of the kits were virtually a few lumps of wood, a plan & some waterslide transfers. After a couple of these I quickly sussed that scratch building was cheaper & very little, if any, more work.
There was a lot more work involved building "solids" than there was assembling a plastic kit.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Built a lot of 1/72nd Airfix kits as a nipper...mainly Tanks & other vehicles....I also spent hours painting the soldiers.

When my boys were old enough to give them a go I was shocked at how small the parts are.....they seem a lot smaller than my 9 year old self remembers them.....

Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 10/03/2019 22:27:10

[Geoff S]

Posted by Peter Miller on 10/03/2019 08:07:48:

I remember a program where James May went to an auction and bought mint , boxed Hornby trains and then upset all the collectors by throwing the boxes away and actually USING (!!!!) the locos etc.

Did my heart good to watch the collectors scream with horror at the sacrelidge!!

They are meant to be used or you can't appreciate them fully.....and the same goes model model aircraft engines!!

I knew 'Tich' Allen, the founder of the Vintage Motor Cycle Club, and that was exactly his attitude to old motor cycles. He always said that they should be used rather than be restored to within an inch of their lives and displayed in a museum. He was known to clean motor cycles with a paint brush A friend of ours used to passenger for him in vintage sidecar races. She still rides a BMW sidecar outfit as her normal means of transport. I'm not sure old she is but certainly north of 70

I was once 'told off' at work because I occasionally rode my wife's 1928 250cc Raleigh to work to give it a run. It was very pretty and he seemed to think it was for display rather than use.

Geoff

[Trevor Crook]

The other thing that occurred to me while watching the program is that I'd rather like to go to an indoor model show. Must keep an eye out for one in the south. Don't mind if there's no RC stuff there, I'd just like to admire the skills on display.

[Devcon1]

Trevor,

The Tank Museum now does two "model" shows a year now.

One of the best museums in the world and on these days they have a large number of plastic kit traders, some stunning displays by plastic kit clubs, tutorial/lecture sessions, RC military vehicles, a track set up for RC diggers trucks etc, the Airfix Make & Take for kids which we all might be surprised at how many very young boys and girls take part and walk away proudly with a hand built and painted Spitfire etc and they have a very low key outdoor flying display by the local club add in tours of their restoration collections and you have a super day out.

Highly recommended.

John

Ps entry fee great value but my pockets took a hammering with more trips back to the car than I  dare admit.

Edited By Devcon1 on 11/03/2019 07:18:53

[Jon Laughton]

Oh dear I’m going to have to come out of the closet red faced and reveal that I too have quite a few unbuilt plastic models - some in original boxes from before I reached 18...I’m 60 now! I’ve even bought a few of the more recent Airfix releases ‘for my retirement ‘! I guess that makes me a fully paid up SABLE member....

Not built a plastic kit for decades but the prospect is still appealing. Ah the smell of polystyrene cement and humbrol enamel takes me back 45 years...to simpler times. The X-acto and other tools I bought for plastic modelling over a long period back then are still used today in my RC workshop; seeing / using them always brings a smile. Why did I allow beer, the opposite sex, education and a career take me away from all that?

Thanks for sharing about this programme I’ll watch it later....

Jon

[SIMON CRAGG]

I thought part 1 was great. The skills of the chap building the Hellcat, the big presentation, the amount of people attending. Really interesting. The lengths the train clubs go to put on a brilliant display was amazing. Hopefully, it will encourage viewers to get modelling, and some of them might even come our way!. Looking forward to the next episode on Wednesday. Great TV...........and no adverts to ruin it.

[Trevor Crook]

Thanks for that Devcon. Bovington is some way from my part of the South (Berkshire) but most years we holiday in that beautiful area. Haven't been to the tank museum for many years now, it must have changed a lot, so I may make the trip for the next model show, which seems to be in October. We are having a family holiday near Swanage in August, but I doubt that any of the others in the party will be interested in a day there....

Lots of railway modelling inspiration at the Swanage railway, the station there was "Woking" in the Dunkirk film.

[Cuban8]

I like James May as he's very much in tune with what most of us are thinking, at least when it comes to modelling. The programme was an entertaining way to spend an hour, but of course, it was preaching to the converted, although to me, didn't seem to be able to make its mind up whether it wanted to showcase the modelling skills (amazing Hellcat) or the troubles that had befallen Hornby.

Would a non-modelling viewer be satisfied? I don't know. Perhaps the fight that is supposed to take place in the next episode will liven things up a bit for them. It's so hard to get this sort of thing right when it comes to aeromodelling - you either get the likes of B.o.B Model Squadron that I and most of my flying buddies loathed for various reasons, or a straight laced factual offering that just doesn't attract the modern audience's limited attention span or is just generally a bit dull for those who are already involved.

The best offering IMHO has been James May's Flight Club, the one with the attempt to fly across the channel with a model glider. The rocketry ones were good as well.Great fun, stuff going wrong, some proper model engineering, and nobody taking it all too seriously to spoil things.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nightflyer]

Yes the first episode was very entertaining and when the SABLE comment came up my wife looked at me and said "I told you you had too many models to build and don't need any more" - oh how I wish the Editor had cut that part out of the final programme edit. The laugh is she knows only about the kits and plans in my workshop.... not the ones I also have in the loft for a rainy day LOL!

[Ray Wood 4]

Hi All

Not sure the second episode really did Hornby any favours ?

Great to see the new prototype car 😀

Regards Ray

[Jon H]

Posted by Ray Wood 4 on 13/03/2019 22:21:45:

Hi All

Not sure the second episode really did Hornby any favours ?

Great to see the new prototype car 😀

Regards Ray

I saw it both ways. Hornby have been out of the market for a while so others had a go. During that time Hornby got themselves together and took steps to create products that put themselves in a position where they can compete with the new producers. All that nonsense about spite is just that and was probably as much for the camera as anything else. On the other hand, these new companies cannot expect a competitor not to compete, and if they truly believe their product is better quality, or better value, then why worry? As the chap from Rails said, its given them the opportunity to go ahead with enhancements to their product to edge out Hornby. The customer then has a choice of the better/more expensive model or the slightly cheaper one. The same was true for the 66's. I dont really see what all the fuss was about.

[Cuban8]

Afraid I fell asleep on the second episode. The problems of many businesses have been well covered on TV over the years (the late Sir John Harvey-Jones as the Troubleshooter IIRC) nothing very new in this offering. The first episode was good, perhaps they should have re-edited it and left it there.

[Maurice Dyer]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 10/03/2019 11:13:35:

I liked the museum curator, too. The way they 'bleeped' his opinions of the former management with loco images across his mouth was brilliant.

I built a few Airfix kits when I was much younger (that would have been in the early 50s). I assume they were Airfix. I remember making a so-called Red Label Bentley as well. My main problem was the finishing and detailing (I'm the same now) so they never really satisfied me.

I had a model railway which I used a lot. It wasn't a Hornby Dublo but a Trix Twin. I had lots of track and especially points because I liked making goods yards and shunting. I never bothered much with scenery but I was fortunate to have my own play room (it was a very big house) so I could have track on the floor as long as I chose.

The local squire (the family of the former coal owners) was a customer of ours and he had a huge model railway layout in the basement of his small stately home. He used to get local railwaymen in to help him run it.

Geoff

I had one of those, probably the same time and age as I was born in 1953.....

I then went on to build the real things at British Hovercraft corporation, 1970.

The plastic version was more fun,,,,,,,,,,

Maury

[Maurice Dyer]

Sorry, Ive cocked up here. The above was meant o be a reply to the gent who built the Airfix SRN1.

Sorry

Maury

[Cuban8]

A question for someone 'in the know'..............

Just how much cheaper will it be for a company like Hornby to have their products made in China? At what point would a UK company look at its domestic costs and decide to farm out production to China? It struck me that once the costly injection moulding tools are made, then the costs of running the machinery shouldn't be all that different no matter where in the world the factory is. Would a company have the tooling made here in the UK and shipped abroad, or does China offer a one stop shop for such work?

Where does the Far East offer the Savings? Is labour still so cheap and plentiful in China and other places, given their rapid economic growth, or are their factories able to run without the level of taxes etc that we level on our industry?

Edited By Cuban8 on 14/03/2019 11:10:32

[Gary Murphy 1]

My main hobby for many years was plastic kits in all scale, mainly armour in 1/35th.

I have a break now and again ,dabbled a bit in RC, still look at posts and builds here but have returned mainly to "plastic kits" again.

Sorry to bash but I do not buy Airfix anymore,full stop. Airfix have some very old kits with old moulds for sale even now and these are poor quality BUT they are old school and that's acceptable.

Airfix have some great new moulded kits out there now,really good in detail and accuracy BUT the moulding quality and QC is absolutely crap. They put every single sprue in the same single bag! Every kit I have had has had a broken or badly warped piece/pieces. WHY?

Now if I was 10 years old again and build these in 10 mins I would not mind. BUT when I build now I want the clear canopy to be undamaged ,when you call Airfix OR email to ask for a replacement to are told ALL the canopys are like that ! What?

Then the plastic must be the softest cheapest in kits on the planet.

If you look on Plastic kit modelling forums you will lose track of the bad comments like the above.

If they go bust or cease trading I for one want be bothered.

Airfix could be right up there but refuse to listen or change. Lots of cheaper better kits around to stay loyal to Airfix

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nightflyer]

Posted by Cuban8 on 14/03/2019 11:07:57:

A question for someone 'in the know'..............

Just how much cheaper will it be for a company like Hornby to have their products made in China? At what point would a UK company look at its domestic costs and decide to farm out production to China? It struck me that once the costly injection moulding tools are made, then the costs of running the machinery shouldn't be all that different no matter where in the world the factory is. Would a company have the tooling made here in the UK and shipped abroad, or does China offer a one stop shop for such work?

Where does the Far East offer the Savings? Is labour still so cheap and plentiful in China and other places, given their rapid economic growth, or are their factories able to run without the level of taxes etc that we level on our industry?

Edited By Cuban8 on 14/03/2019 11:10:32

In answer to that question it is variable. However, seeing as most of the production plant (injection moulding machines) might be similar then plant operating costs are cheaper, materials can be cheaper as invariably China is a large consumer of plastics, labour and taxes are cheaper, and you can also readily sell the product in China too reducing freight costs. China is a very large country so has a massive market potential which I am sure is also being considered or pushed by the likes of Hornby.

If you manufacture and sell in China, it can significantly offset or negate the cost of shipping the quantities that might be required for the UK and European markets. Some of China's cities alone have populations the equal or of a factor of double the UK population!

At the same time when you look at the increasing size of some container ships now the cost of shipping is potentially reduced (although I am sure there are others better placed to comment on this aspect).

[Devcon1]

Last nights episode not as entertaining as E1, I think, but still a fascinating insight into the company and inner workings and would quite happily watch more of the same.

In terms of Airfix, I build a range of types and manufacturers and the current range of new tool kits are top quality, I've just built the 1/48 See Fury and found it excellent, they don't do 1/35 armour to the best of my knowledge.

God forbid, it would be a huge loss if Airfix were to leave the scene as they are a very competent player in the model market, I've got the big Hellcat on order and are looking forward to some other new tool stuff.

Just waiting to see a decently priced 1/24 Stuka to complete my set, whilst very old and crude moulds they do build into some very atmospheric subjects.

[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by Gary Murphy 1 on 14/03/2019 11:17:52:

Airfix have some great new moulded kits out there now,really good in detail and accuracy BUT the moulding quality and QC is absolutely crap. They put every single sprue in the same single bag! Every kit I have had has had a broken or badly warped piece/pieces. WHY?

Now if I was 10 years old again and build these in 10 mins I would not mind. BUT when I build now I want the clear canopy to be undamaged ,when you call Airfix OR email to ask for a replacement to are told ALL the canopys are like that ! What?

 

Gary

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the above as my recent experience is very different.

In the last couple of years I've built:

1 x Spitfire XIX

4 x HS Gnat T.1

1 x Sea Harrier FRS.1

2 x Phantom FG.1

1 x A6M5 Zero

1 x Bf109e-4

All 1/72, all new toolings.

Without exception their clear parts have been packed in a separate small bag to the sprues and all of the non-clear sprues were in perfect condition. I'm not convinced any other manufacturer packs their sprues any differently to Airfix (My recent comparable experiences are with Eduard, Hasegawa, Sword, Revell).

My experience of Airfix quality is that it is comparable to other leading manufacturers, because their practises are similar.

They have certainly improved over the way kits were packaged back in the 70's, 80's and 90's (along with Frog, Matchbox etc).

I certainly hope Airfix stick around as they are not guilty of the crimes you accuse them of! I am looking forward to building the imminent Buccanneer S.2!

Edited By Alan Gorham_ on 14/03/2019 15:45:01

[Jon Laughton]

Posted by Cuban8 on 14/03/2019 11:07:57:

A question for someone 'in the know'..............

Just how much cheaper will it be for a company like Hornby to have their products made in China? At what point would a UK company look at its domestic costs and decide to farm out production to China? It struck me that once the costly injection moulding tools are made, then the costs of running the machinery shouldn't be all that different no matter where in the world the factory is. Would a company have the tooling made here in the UK and shipped abroad, or does China offer a one stop shop for such work?

Where does the Far East offer the Savings? Is labour still so cheap and plentiful in China and other places, given their rapid economic growth, or are their factories able to run without the level of taxes etc that we level on our industry?

Edited By Cuban8 on 14/03/2019 11:10:32

Further to the excellent answer from Nighflyer above I would add that there is a predisposition in UK industry to fail to realise the significant savings that can be made from identifying / removing the inherent waste in any plant; of course there are exceptions and indeed many manufacturers now understand 'lean production' concepts and try to embody them.

However in my experience of having both directly run industrial plants as a Production Director / CEO and now training those who run other such companies to be leaner, it is a common failing that senior managers / leadership fail to understand that removing waste is something people need to be engaged in and be set examples for. Too often those at the top of such organisations 'preach' but don't 'practice'.... Add into that a complete absence of any really well thought out UK Government strategy for Industry or proper financial support and we have the situation where we who started the industrial revolution and led the world in aerospace in the past have 'sold the family silver' in favour of the service sector....

My comments on waste are just as relevant to the Public sector, Service companies and dare I say it National & Local Government...