Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Scrivens Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Am I right in saying that if Amazon decided to operate a fleet of drones, they would only have to pay £16.50 for the whole fleet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Dunn Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Posted by Raymond Scrivens on 07/05/2019 10:15:59: Am I right in saying that if Amazon decided to operate a fleet of drones, they would only have to pay £16.50 for the whole fleet? I suspect that is what all of us who read the details are thinking I did include an Amazon reference in my emails... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I think I have read through all the thread and kept up to date and it seems that one aspect of the discussion might be missing. I am not UK resident but I always thought model flying was registered as a sport and therefore would be under the brief of another MP whose name is Mims Davies. Her responsibility must include protection for those who want to enjoy their legal and well established sports and if she was to become involved in this important mission it should at least provide some defense against the alleged desire that governments and organisations want rid of us. Also another point of entry into the legislators that presumably can only help. I think there are two different scenarios playing out. One is the political response to be seen to be doing something as a result of the airport chaos (conspiracy theories included) and this provides as useful excuse for whatever they want to do. The other is the longer term view that paves the way for extensive commercial drone use whether it actually happens or not. Drones used for commercial delivery will be sophisticated and will be geo fenced from airports and other sensitive sites and there is no reason why registered model flying sites should not be geofenced either. How many drone deliveries are going to be required on flying sites unless of course you forgot to bring your batteries or your fuel! And what about those competition flyers arriving from other countries for events and championships. Will they have to register or will their native country registration (assuming they have one) be enough. What then would stop me from registering all my models in France and it is a genuine question? Levanter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Posted by Ray Dunn on 07/05/2019 10:36:17: Posted by Raymond Scrivens on 07/05/2019 10:15:59: Am I right in saying that if Amazon decided to operate a fleet of drones, they would only have to pay £16.50 for the whole fleet? I suspect that is what all of us who read the details are thinking I did include an Amazon reference in my emails... If there's big money to be made, the Government will soon come up with a licencing scheme for the big players - look how much the 3G and 4G mobile phone licences generated! For those who don't remember, it totalled in the region of £45,000,000,000 (45 billion) for permission to use a natural resource not actually provided by anyone... Edited By Martin Harris on 07/05/2019 14:06:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Edwards 2 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 The CAA are not daft, far from it. They know that 170,000 registrations is rubbish, and they are fully aware of all the objections we are going to throw at them. Therefore - there is a hidden agenda here, and I suspect it's all about the long term commercial value of airspace. As Drone automation technology inexorably increases, bodies will be approaching the UK Government for access and control of low level airspace. This has huge commercial value, and the Government will look to make a fortune from it. You can't "sell the sky" to Amazon, Google or Microsoft if any Tom Dick or Harry can stick an Acro Wot in their way. Therefore you have to slowly, and gradually regulate these out of the picture. As a group of 40 thousand or so, we are irrelevant, a relatively small but annoying thorn obstructing a huge commercial commodity, and they want us squashed. Registration is sadly I fear, just the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levanter Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 So presumably "they" also want to squash recreational GA flying, gliding, hang gliding, paragliding, parachuting, rocketry, base jumping and human cannonballs etc to make way for the Drones. Some of these have a much larger footprint than model flying. I can't help feeling any damage will be self-inflicted on those who will not, rather than cannot change, and therefore not really victims at all. There is an argument that registration will ultimately facilitate the regulated sharing of airspace. It's just that they are not going about it very well. Levanter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Regardless of commercial clout I think the likes of Google and Amazon will feel the wrath of Jo Public if drone deliveries flying at sub 400ft become commonplace above our towns and cities. This is not-with-standing the very real limitations of the battery technology, weather dependancy, and reliability/risk, associated with this 'brave new world'. People talk glibly of the inevitably of larger hybrid drones but the noise and potential for disaster, not to mention the amount of system redundancy and cost of certification for flight over built up areas would be eye watering. I have little doubt their use will increase and very useful they will be too; for aiding emergency services, surveys etc. Personally, I can't see our skies simply buzzing with drone parcel deliveries anytime soon, regardless of what Amazon or Google may say (or wish). So I think there will be room for us all to fly our models aircraft for a while yet Percy (if you don't mind registering). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Bernard Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I have no argument against registration - we knew that was coming from the discussions and EASA output from last year. What riles me is The model associations offer to manage registrations on the CAA's behalf, and/or provide access to the current registration databases being totally ignored Trying to force another registration system on us, and using totally unrealistic numbers and costs to try to justify the proposed registration fees Due to the above wasting public time and money on yet another government IT project - and we know how those turn out! On a positive note we should not overlook the positive that at least it is people being registered and not the models! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Levanter and Piers, excellent posts. Particularly - "There is an argument that registration will ultimately facilitate the regulated sharing of airspace. It's just that they are not going about it very well." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solly Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Posted by Levanter on 07/05/2019 17:08:12: So presumably "they" also want to squash recreational GA flying, gliding, hang gliding, paragliding, parachuting, rocketry, base jumping and human cannonballs etc to make way for the Drones. Some of these have a much larger footprint than model flying. I can't help feeling any damage will be self-inflicted on those who will not, rather than cannot change, and therefore not really victims at all. There is an argument that registration will ultimately facilitate the regulated sharing of airspace. It's just that they are not going about it very well. Levanter Well said. Hopefully your post will bring the more hysterical posts to a close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin McIntosh Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 These delivery drones will obviously work in countries which have large open spaces such as the US and Africa, but never in Blighty other than for emergency services. I believe that a shotgun licence lasts for five years and works out cheaper in the end so if you see an Amazon drone over your garden or flying field you will know what to do!!!!! Anyway, who is going to enforce any legislation which states that you cannot fly a toy aeroplane without first registering? The Bill will not even turn out if you get burgled or mugged. And who has the equipment to see if your model is at over 400ft or whatever? Are they seriously thinking of taking a set of scales with them to check the weight of your foamie? It beggars belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 They might show up to a flying site if they're bored. Seems unlikely though, doesn't it? We'll all be registered. Really, this just provides an easy means to clobber an unregistered pilot doing something naughty, which they get caught red handed on; an unequivocal legal red line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thacker Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Posted by Nigel R on 07/05/2019 18:08:41: They might show up to a flying site if they're bored. Seems unlikely though, doesn't it? We'll all be registered. Really, this just provides an easy means to clobber an unregistered pilot doing something naughty, which they get caught red handed on; an unequivocal legal red line. Unequivocal maybe but as Martin observed above, what chance an overworked bobby is going to turn up in a field to check if a model weighs more than 250g? History taught us that laws which can not be enforced will be broken. And the minority who break them knowingly and with deliberate intent will view as irrelevant the new proposals. If I want to disrupt Gatwick flight schedules I am not likely to register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Symons - BMFA Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 **LINK** Once again we would like to thank members for their efforts responding to the CAA consultation and writing to the Aviation Minister, CAA CEO and your local MP. We know a number of members have arranged meetings with their local MP which is a fantastic way of ensuring their engagement with the issue. If you have a meeting arranged with your MP please email [email protected] and we can provide you with information and guidance which will be useful to you during your meetings. If you haven't yet completed the consultation or written to the parties mentioned earlier please consider doing so, every response and letter helps. Once again thank you for your support All at the BMFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Posted by Martin McIntosh on 07/05/2019 17:53:42: These delivery drones will obviously work in countries which have large open spaces such as the US and Africa, but never in Blighty other than for emergency services. I believe that a shotgun licence lasts for five years and works out cheaper in the end so if you see an Amazon drone over your garden or flying field you will know what to do!!!!! Anyway, who is going to enforce any legislation which states that you cannot fly a toy aeroplane without first registering? The Bill will not even turn out if you get burgled or mugged. And who has the equipment to see if your model is at over 400ft or whatever? Are they seriously thinking of taking a set of scales with them to check the weight of your foamie? It beggars belief. Can somebody please explain how, in the event of drone deliveries beginning on anything more than a limited experimental scale, how either of the two, thirty or so acre club flying sites that I use, situated in open countryside, will be a hazard to drone deliveries.? We're surrounded by mostly open countryside with few dwellings nearby - there's hardly anyone around to deliver anything to! I suspect because of the nature of our activities and the benefit of keeping clear of houses, because of noise and other issues, many other clubs share a similar type of location. By no means all, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Fox Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I'd like to think that this whole process is about establishing a framework to allow a line of clear communication between all current and future users of all categories of UK airspace. Our club operates within Class D controlled airspace. We are in effect regulated, in that we have registered our main flying site and other secondary gliding sites with our local ATC. We have found that this regulation is actually an advantage, in that we can apply to ATC for a height exemption, for example, to 1000' rather than the usual 400'. Our site is marked on aviation maps as an active model flying site. On our public display days, an exclusion zone is arranged to allow for the increased activity over the display weekend. My message here, is not to be afraid of impending regulation - though I'm sure it will come - it's all about communicating your presence with other airspace users and building a mutual respect. Edited By Andy Fox on 07/05/2019 21:41:09 Edited By Andy Fox on 07/05/2019 21:42:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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