Wings and Wheels 2019

[Jon H]

To help out with identifying plain box kits perhaps print off an A4 sheet with large block text saying what it is. These can be taped to boxes and only need to contain basic information, just enough to catch the eye.

All i think it would need to say was the name of the model, its size, an perhaps the manufacturer?

These should be quite visible at a distance i would think

[Gavin Chester]

Posted by martin collins 1 on 02/07/2019 18:31:52:

I agree re prices Gavin, i bought a model from the B&B, the guy had his number on it so i called him, negotiated a price then gave the phone to one of your guys who was told the agreed price, i was happy, the vendor was happy and presumably so were you guys.

Logistically that's quite hard when you have almost 1000 items to manage, and there are data protection issues leaving peoples numbers on display or giving them away. We also need to try and prevent someone leaving something in the B&B with a number on it all weekend so we are advertising it, and then they withdraw it and sell it outside the B&B so avoiding paying commission. We don't see much of the show as we are working, and the money raised goes towards out flying field costs for the year.

I don't know the answer, but I can pass idea on.

[Gavin Chester]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 02/07/2019 19:50:30:

To help out with identifying plain box kits perhaps print off an A4 sheet with large block text saying what it is. These can be taped to boxes and only need to contain basic information, just enough to catch the eye.

All i think it would need to say was the name of the model, its size, an perhaps the manufacturer?

These should be quite visible at a distance i would think

If you go on the W&W site under Bring & Buy there is a template for people to do just that, but many people don't and wonder why the anonymous brown box with no idea what is in it has not sold.

A lot of the time its the memory of the staff that means we know what is or is not on sale...

[KELL]

Well I’m gonna be positive. After a few poor years I thought this Saturday was an improvement. Hot day and difficult wind conditions, I thought the pilots done a great job. I’ve been flying for 20 years, yet still get a buzz watching anything flying around. What ever happened to that flying lawnmower? Thought the commentator has come on leaps n bounds now. Always going to be hard following DB, but he’s developed his own style now and is entertaining. I bought a peach of a Stampe in the B&B. Wonderfully built and a laser 150 fitted up front too. Glad I took my van as it just fitted in whole. Fired up the engine next day and overjoyed to hear that sweet sound, purring away. A day out for 12 quid is a bargain these days. Saw lots of interesting things in the quad tent, bought some must have bits n bobs, bumped into some old mates and had an ice cream. A good day out for me. Wings and wheels is at last on the up again.

[bert baker]

I bumped into BD at the bring and buy,,,,,,

will you be joining in the Stampede at wings and wheel next year

[Nightflyer]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 02/07/2019 15:14:51:

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/07/2019 13:16:56:

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/07/2019 16:19:23:

So what you see fly is what you can buy at the stalls behind you. As i have mentioned before (this same discussion last year) there is a problem here as people wont pay money to watch an acrowot fly. For a start it would be small at the safe distances we have to fly at and then if you wanted to see an acrowot you would just go to the local field and there will probably be one or something similar there. Its a balance and they are working on it.

Maybe not an Acrowot singular, but I'd pay good money to see 50 or 100 in the air at once! You could have a competition to see who actually lands after the carnage!

And who will finance said carnage? Its a great idea but you again rely on the pilots to supply and pay for their own models. Even a foamy acrowot is 100 odd quid and i wouldnt want to be throwing that away. Remember that each slot runs twice a day, so that could cost you £400 in foamies alone if you were unlucky.

Very valid point Jon, I remember the days when the Ripmax Team were flying Rapiers and can remember at both Sandown, Plumpton and Hastings show weekends a high attrition rate on models on the Saturday and some frantic searching for replacements to fulfil the Sunday show slots. IIRC the models were supplied (but still costly weekend for Ripmax). It can look great to have these slots but can be very costly be it to modeller(s) or manufacturer(s). Added to that the fact that a number of the pilots, manufacturers and their models support multiple shows it can be quite a challenge - especially if you have to repair or build replacement models!

Similarly, we as responsible people should consider how we want to promote our hobby/sport. Lots of crashes and mid-air collisions may look entertaining but does not necessarily promote model flying in a positive light to the public and authorities - especially in this day with the high visibility that social media provides. I am not sure if this helps boost show visitors or jaundices public opinios of model flying. I daresay there are others better positioned to have a view on this.

[Jon H]

Cost is the reason the pyrotechnics show only took place on one day. If its inclusion is guaranteed to bring in a certain amount of additional revenue then its something that can be expanded, but its a delicate balance as its a costly venture.

It would also be nice if the pyro's blew up various objects. cardboard cut out factories and parked planes etc. Sadly, i dont think the airfield would like us covering the place in debris so i suspect that is a non starter.

You are right about the image of the sport too. Creating a situation where crashes are part of the spectacle is perhaps the wrong thing to do. The panic guys dont intend to crash, but they are likely given the nature of the slot and that is part of the thrill. Another difficult balance to work out.

In terms of public perception, and indeed that of modellers who dont fly them, i think the drone fest was a great success this year as the guys who flew them performed exactly as they should have and within all of the same limitations the rest of us had to. There were no problems, no conflicts, and having them flying round the bar in the evening was great fun.

Yes, by the letter of the law flying round a bar full of people with a drone is not something that should be encouraged on a day to day basis, but it was completely safe and appropriate given the situation at the time.

[Tim Flyer]

The Pyrotechnics in Saturday’s WW2 show were really great . Good size explosion and plenty of flame it was a great opportunity for photographers there to take some good shots . Was great seeing the planes dodging in and out of it 😊. We had six of our club members attending ..they all enjoyed it . Four of the six bought planes there and all bought accessories so the commercial non display side is seen as just as important as the displays.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

Posted by Nightflyer on 03/07/2019 13:21:29:

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 02/07/2019 15:14:51:

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/07/2019 13:16:56:

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/07/2019 16:19:23:

So what you see fly is what you can buy at the stalls behind you. As i have mentioned before (this same discussion last year) there is a problem here as people wont pay money to watch an acrowot fly. For a start it would be small at the safe distances we have to fly at and then if you wanted to see an acrowot you would just go to the local field and there will probably be one or something similar there. Its a balance and they are working on it.

Maybe not an Acrowot singular, but I'd pay good money to see 50 or 100 in the air at once! You could have a competition to see who actually lands after the carnage!

And who will finance said carnage? Its a great idea but you again rely on the pilots to supply and pay for their own models. Even a foamy acrowot is 100 odd quid and i wouldnt want to be throwing that away. Remember that each slot runs twice a day, so that could cost you £400 in foamies alone if you were unlucky.

Very valid point Jon, I remember the days when the Ripmax Team were flying Rapiers and can remember at both Sandown, Plumpton and Hastings show weekends a high attrition rate on models on the Saturday and some frantic searching for replacements to fulfil the Sunday show slots. IIRC the models were supplied (but still costly weekend for Ripmax). It can look great to have these slots but can be very costly be it to modeller(s) or manufacturer(s). Added to that the fact that a number of the pilots, manufacturers and their models support multiple shows it can be quite a challenge - especially if you have to repair or build replacement models!

Similarly, we as responsible people should consider how we want to promote our hobby/sport. Lots of crashes and mid-air collisions may look entertaining but does not necessarily promote model flying in a positive light to the public and authorities - especially in this day with the high visibility that social media provides. I am not sure if this helps boost show visitors or jaundices public opinios of model flying. I daresay there are others better positioned to have a view on this.

Oh, for the love of God. I typed in jest. BUT I still say it would be a great spectacle. Doesn’t have to be acrowots. Flite Fest did it in the states with over 300 planes.

i dare say you like the mass free flight launches at old warden, and that’s far less controlled.

[Jon H]

In jest or no, its not really a sustainable thing to do.

What FT did in the US was not the same sort of event and would still rely on the pilots building their models. A few quids worth of cheap foam board isnt to much of a burden, but the time involved to build them is as most of the display pilots perform at most of the shows.

If we assume they lost 4 models during the WW weekend how are they going to find time to build another 4 before Cosford this weekend? Then build one or 2 more before the next show? Even with cheap foamboard models the cost of this will mount up.

Even ignoring that at WW there is still the issue of covering the whole airfield in FOD for all the full size to digest.

I agree that it would be quite a sight, but its just not that simple im afraid.

Edited By Jon - Laser Engines on 04/07/2019 08:33:57

[Cuban8]

Chatting to a mate on the phone last night, we agreed that a big 'problem' for shows now is that there really isn't that much in the way of new and revolutionary technology that really grips an audience as it did in the past - and in many cases the whole reason for going to a big show was to see the new ideas and products. So much exposure on the internet that we've become a little jaded and fatigued with the latest trends?

A couple of 'game changers' being when we saw our first turbine model at Sandown - late 80s, early 90's perhaps? The whole crowd fell silent in awe at the sight and sound. Possibly a tad before that - an electric powered model that wasn't a glider and actually flew simple aerobatics!! Sound ridiculous now, but it was breath taking stuff back in the day. If memory serves the model was a 'Flittermouse' by Mole technology and they used ruinously expensive Cobalt brushed motors and equally expensive selected and matched Nicads. I think they offered a buggy motor and standard battery setup option  but without the sparkling, if limited duration, performance (Remember Ian Peacock's 'Electric Haze'? Flew almost  as well IIRC and was many times less expensive.)

Hanno Prettner.........need I say more? Inspired me into that style of big aerobatics that I'm still trying to get reasonable at.

Even heli and F/W flying in the 3D style was a novelty.

What gets the crowd going to the same extent these days?

Edited By Cuban8 on 04/07/2019 09:40:58

[Jon H]

Thats a fair point cuban. I remember in the times before turbines existed watching with trepidation as a chap would attempt to coax an i/c ducted fan model into the air powered by a K&B or OS DF engine. The takeoff was always marginal at best but once going they got the job done. As you say, we were then awestruck by turbines when they first appeared but now they are common at shows.

I do miss the pulsejets though. They used to be awesome!

[Cuban8]

Pulsejets!! You've just reminded me Jon. First Wings and Wheels in '86 IIRC, Giuseppe Dardanello's Italian Pulsejet team..........a lot of the display was flown inverted as apparently.........the model was glitching upwards!

Still going , just Googled him **LINK**

[Nightflyer]

Good point Cuban we have seen some massive changes over teh years and so finding the next new start turn is harder to come by. Some valid observations of those things that impacted at the time (and not necessarily physically impacting the ground or another model). Regarding the Pulse Jets, yes ever since I saw Jo Coolen (excuse if spelling is wrong) at Plumpton years ago. Most memorable knowledge aside form occassionaly scorching the grass was when one of his models was gliding in to land clipped the top of a tree and we watched as model continued in to land hardly affected, and top few feet of tree fell to the ground.

From a flying perspective it is hard as shows have upped the ante over the years with firsts that become commonplace. Think of the points Cuban made, also things like large scale models, large scale B29, electric powered B29 and Jetex X1, Dambusters Bouncing Bomb, Flying Lawnmowers etc.

Maybe the way would be to have a survey of modellers as to what they want to see at shows. Tricky as previously mentioned different type shows might have different slants on flying programme.

[Ron Gray]

@Cuban8 - You ask what gets the crowd going, I was at both Weston and Wings n Wheels and for me there were some things that stood out and made me go wow (but hey I'm easily pleased). First, at Weston, the display by the SAB team both their turbines and their leecy powered jobs, so much so that I was sorely tempted by the leccy ones but baulked at the cost. Secondly Jase Dussia and his amazing 3D flying (which I'm not a great fan of but was in awe at his control of that 'plane, if you haven't seen it look on Essential RCs YouTube channel) and thirdly at Weston Jonathan Boisson flying the 3D vectored thrust Rafale, again not really my thing but I appreciated the skill and loved the look. At WnW there were 2 flights that stood out for me and they were both by Mark Hinton, firstly flying his A10 and then his Rafale and the reason they stood out was due to the scale way in which he flew them and totally ignored the egging on from the commentator to fly 3D with the Rafale.

As I've said, I'm not really into hard core 3D, scale aerobatics are more my thing and I've got no itch to get a gas turbine 'plane but I do appreciate them. Having said that, the SAB team got the speed itch going again so I'm not building a 6s power Multiplex Funjet Ultra which is darn site cheaper than the SAB Tourga!

[Martin McIntosh]

I last saw the pulse jets at Weston Park a couple of years ago. Very impressive. Also, the standard of the displays there way exceeded anything I have seen elsewhere.

At W&W I saw a guys t shirt saying that WP was 1992 to date but I actually took part in the very first one in the mid `70s. It included a Spitfire display, an ME108 and a glider landing there. I was in the JDM team at the time and we well and truly blew up a fort with maroons fixed to gallon cans of petrol. The whole show was very much smaller than it now is but so good that I could not see it getting better so did not go back until as I said above.