Former Member Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Labelling aircraft. I thought that there had been a concession that Operator ID labels could be inside the aircraft. But reading the The Drone and Model Aircraft Code, it suggests that the label must be on the outside of the main body, in clear display when the aircraft is on the ground. Cheers, Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason-I Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 In addition to my post above, Vere also does not expect the police to prosecute children flying rubber band powered aeroplanes within flight restriction zones - even thoug this is contrary to CAA regulations. Apparently the police will apply the laws sensibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Nigel Heather on 05/11/2019 14:41:33: Labelling aircraft. I thought that there had been a concession that Operator ID labels could be inside the aircraft. But reading the The Drone and Model Aircraft Code, it suggests that the label must be on the outside of the main body, in clear display when the aircraft is on the ground. Cheers, Nigel The CAA website says " visible without needing a special tool to remove or open part of your aircraft". So even if you you believe a screwdriver is a "special tool" a spring loaded hatch should be OK. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bisset Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Jason-I : I agree the police will find it difficult to sort out the relevant rules too. The CAA's website is difficult and 'clunky' to deal with - ask any pilot, instructor or flying examiner! The cutbacks over a number of years have meant the CAA struggles to cope with its main responsibilities and little spare capacity exists for the apparently less important tasks., That probably explains some of the apparent confusion. I suspect the police will treat this as they have various other awkward or minor areas of law; if it is hard to understand and the impact of the activity is minor they will often carefully look the other way rather than open up a can of worms. They have more urgent tasks and much more important concerns than us and our radio control models. They will only check if they see good reason to, such as obviously stupid behaviour or a public complaint. (and even then probably only if from someone senior like a councillor or politician.) As an example - occasionally, like many glider pilots, I drive very long sailplane trailers. They are longer than any normal roadworthy trailer but are legal because the load (the dismantled half wingspan) is indivisible. Generally, the police simply ignore us. They are well aware the trailers are unusually long and outside the normal roadworthiness rules, but since we are clearly unconcerned by their presence and (generally) driving carefully their presumption is that we are law abiding and that an exception exists - which it does. The view of a policeman I knew well was that the average cop recognised that any queries would probably cause more hassle than it was worth. Sleeping dogs were left to doze... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Steve J on 05/11/2019 14:46:53: Posted by Chris Berry on 05/11/2019 14:36:27: Those are the people this scheme is targeting and as we all know and have said for the last 2 years now Not all. In which case where have all the LMA, FPVUK, SAA and BMFA members been? Consultations galore for 2 years, chatter on here and other media, letters, emails and articles in magazines. Not sure that anyone involved in the hobby in any meaningful way for that duration could not be aware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Nigel Heather on 05/11/2019 14:41:33: Labelling aircraft. I thought that there had been a concession that Operator ID labels could be inside the aircraft. But reading the The Drone and Model Aircraft Code, it suggests that the label must be on the outside of the main body, in clear display when the aircraft is on the ground. Cheers, Nigel I'm sure I read that there had been a concession to those with scale models in particular? Maybe confirmation will be forthcoming in a few days. I think clarification/formal confirmation on the following is needed: 1 Free flight over 250g 2 Training and the use of buddy leads vs registration of beginner or flight experience at a school, scout group etc 3 Labelling of aircraft, particularly scale There may be more but that's all i can think of at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Williams Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 From the CAA's document "The Drone and Model Aircraft Code" Aircraft covered by this Code: Drones Model aeroplanes Model gliders Model helicopters ....so I don't need to bother about my autogyros then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Chris Berry on 05/11/2019 14:36:27: Posted by Martin Harris on 05/11/2019 14:23:56: I think the Captain's point is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to be sure you are complying with all aspects of the new legislation in all cases. I agree. The average xmas toy flyer who will fly their drone 4 times a year won't navigate their way through the clunky CAA website. They won't have even heard of the BMFA and won't want to commit to membership and clubs, they just go to smyths toys pay £50 and get a stocking filler toy drone to hover over the cat and next doors garden. The reality is that most drones owned by toy flyers are bought on xmas eve, opened on xmas day flown on boxing day and either lost, crashed or put on top of the wardrobe by New Years day. Those are the people this scheme is targeting and as we all know and have said for the last 2 years now, it will fail dramatically and everyone including the DFT knows it. Targeting the toy drones is all very well but I just wish that their aim was a hell of a lot better - must have been using a blunderbuss seeing as we've had our backsides peppered with their buckshot. BTW, I do keep a lookout on my travels and I haven't seen a drone being flown in a public place for many months - last time I think was one being flown BLOS up and down the beach last spring. Be interesting to see the sales figures for drones over Christmas and whether the signs suggest that the craze is definitely blowing itself out. How will the authorities know how many drones there are versus the number of F/W & helis? If it's only operators and pilots recorded AASFAI not what they fly, how will they know if their targeted devices that they are worried about are being covered? Could actually have very few drones and many more F/W and helis making a total mockery of their master plan. Another thread asks how many models do you have ready to go? Seems about ten for each of us, hard to say, but -with 30000+ BMFA members - that's a lot of model aircraft, many tens, possibly hundreds of thousands. Are the drones anywhere near close? who knows? No data, no point. Edited By Cuban8 on 05/11/2019 16:53:59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstreak.keith Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I always build small(the only things I can fly really and not very good) does this law allow me to fly my rubber powered free flighters over 250g but usually averaging 300g+ ? also what about my jetex? (still got some and some rapiers left. also got some cox 049 free flighters. any help appreciated as £1000 fine would empty the workshop piggy bank for many years thanks keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Steve J on 05/11/2019 15:52:03: Posted by Chris Berry on 05/11/2019 15:26:38: Posted by Steve J on 05/11/2019 14:46:53: Posted by Chris Berry on 05/11/2019 14:36:27: Those are the people this scheme is targeting and as we all know and have said for the last 2 years now, it will fail dramatically and everyone including the DFT knows it. Not all. Not sure that anyone involved in the hobby in any meaningful way for that duration could not be aware? I was objecting to your use of the word 'all'. I disagree with all the points that you make in that sentence. So who is the scheme aimed at Steve? And if not drone fliers why wasn't the scheme introduced years ago before drones existed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Cuban8 on 05/11/2019 16:35:53: Posted by Chris Berry on 05/11/2019 14:36:27: Posted by Martin Harris on 05/11/2019 14:23:56: I think the Captain's point is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to be sure you are complying with all aspects of the new legislation in all cases. I agree. The average xmas toy flyer who will fly their drone 4 times a year won't navigate their way through the clunky CAA website. They won't have even heard of the BMFA and won't want to commit to membership and clubs, they just go to smyths toys pay £50 and get a stocking filler toy drone to hover over the cat and next doors garden. The reality is that most drones owned by toy flyers are bought on xmas eve, opened on xmas day flown on boxing day and either lost, crashed or put on top of the wardrobe by New Years day. Those are the people this scheme is targeting and as we all know and have said for the last 2 years now, it will fail dramatically and everyone including the DFT knows it. Targeting the toy drones is all very well but I just wish that their aim was a hell of a lot better - must have been using a blunderbuss seeing as we've had our backsides peppered with their buckshot. BTW, I do keep a lookout on my travels and I haven't seen a drone being flown in a public place for many months - last time I think was one being flown BLOS up and down the beach last spring. Be interesting to see the sales figures for drones over Christmas and whether the signs suggest that the craze is definitely blowing itself out. I can see a situation where toy drone sales decline significantly. Hobby fliers and the likes of us will continue of course. The general consensus on the various news channel facebook pages is that drones are a problem and should be banned or heavily regulated. Of course the Gatwick issue is also referenced as being a prime reason, albeit no evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstreak.keith Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 its a pity they didnt attach a clause that along with the £9 ALL fliers MUST HAVE LIABILITY INSURANCE. Most of us sensibly do,foolish not to especially in my case of free flight mainly. christmas toy season looming, daddy pays the 9 quid and the kid passes the test. job done. christmas day kid goes flying and aircraft crashes and causes mega damage to something.(someone?) I also think any model supplier should have the same responsibility as a gun shop. licence first before sale any thoughts? keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The CAA webpage linked to on this thread earlier today DOES have a section on the advisability of insurance. It does point out that it is not a legal requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstreak.keith Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 It never has been alan but it would have been nice to put that out on mainstream radio announcements, and i didnt hear any mention of it so far. the k/k minimoa in my foto was a fly away about 2 yrs ago i think. returned to me by a local farmer 2 miles away (by road not as crow flies) minus a wing. hit a barn door in his yard. luckily no damage to person or property and my address was on it. he asked where all the radio gear fitted. so a cup of tea and an offer to make a field gate for him labour free, kept me on good terms and i continued to fly from his upper field. he also knew i was insured as it was his upper field that i flew from. btw this is probably 1 of the best forum posts i have read for a while glued to it keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Put out what? A message saying you need to register but you don't need insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Adams 3 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 As I understand it the CAA was supposed to issue a questionnaire today 05/11/2019, for us to answer & send it back to them so as they could issue a permit. where is it, are they in so much of a muddle they do not know what they are doing????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 See this very thread from earlier today: Posted by Dickw on 05/11/2019 10:20:01: Posted by RC Plane Flyer on 05/11/2019 09:19:23: Can anybody guide me to the relevant registration document My search tells me all about the dates etc but the link to their form is not active ?????? Now active! **LINK** Dick Edited By Dickw on 05/11/2019 10:34:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Posted by Michael Adams 3 on 05/11/2019 18:42:58: As I understand it the CAA was supposed to issue a questionnaire today 05/11/2019, for us to answer & send it back to them so as they could issue a permit. where is it, are they in so much of a muddle they do not know what they are doing????? I assume you’re being sarcastic? 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Berriman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Deleted my comments Edited By RC Plane Flyer on 05/11/2019 19:11:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Lewis 3 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I must say whilst registering an (organisation) as an operator I didn't know whether to laugh or cry as I imagined the person responsible (as they call it) at Amazon et al laughing when considering the thousand or so drones they intend to put in the air being told they only need to pay a paltry mere £9.00 for the whole lot! And what happened to the aim of taxing properly multinational corporations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heather Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Half for fun and half to ask genuine questions I gave the CAA drone registration helpline a call today. The lady I spoke to started of pleasant but quickly became jobsworth. It was clear a team had been dropped in with little understanding of the hobby or even the legislation. As I asked some reasonable but more complex questions about the competency test she became prickly and started saying things like I can’t answer those sort of questions and when I pushed saying they were reasonable questions about how I comply with the CAA registration process she started getting flustered saying “we are not the CAA you need to speak to them”. Clearly this was a team that was feeling a lot of pressure, probably employed by someone like Atos but not realising that whoever employees them they are representing the CAA. Anyway in the end I gave up and left with the advice that she had given me which was absolutely incorrect. Cheers, Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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