Old Model for old modeller

[Victor Allen 1]

Hi Guys.

My first time on here so forgive if I make too many mistakes.

I started aero modelling some 8 years ago at the ripe old age of 60 and was lucky enough to have found a model shop in Kent who had a flood damaged Precedent T180 in their storeroom which I purchased for half the original price.

The plane went together very well and the shop owner put her in the air for me for her miden flight at the club field where he was a member.

Sadly, a short time after that first flight, my late wife was diagnosed with cancer from which she never recovered and for 2 long years the T180 sat in the loft gathering dust. The model shop closed down and I never got to fly the T180. Now, 8 years on I would like to try again but wondered if anyone has an old T180 for sale or if the wing plan is available anywhere that I can purchase so that I can try my hand at back engineering to build as near a model as possible.

I know it's unlikely, but this old model builder has an @ankering for a long lost and beautiful model aircraft.

Thanks for any help or advice

Vic.

[Nigel R]

Welcome aboard.

Has the T180 has been sold or damaged?

If you are going from scratch, SLEC sell a kit for the bigger version, the T240.

[Jon H]

If you still have it then i would certainly give it a refurb. If not, the T240 is a good option but it is big! T180's do come up from time to time but you might do better to look for a decathlon kit as they are very similar looking and perform the well in the air. I know there are plenty of ready to fly decathlon's, not sure about real kits though.

A friend of mine has an old and beaten T180 and its a hoot to fly.

[David Davis]

I agree with Jon about the T180. It's quite a robust model so well worth refurbing. However, the T240 is a bit large and expensive for a first model. I'd recommend a Super 60 from Ben Buckle or a DB Mascot as alternatives.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

There are a few older threads about the T180 including posts from a few people who have kits/plans.....

Pop T180 in the search box....

[kc]

Rebuilding an old model is well worth while. Put a photo here and get the experts opinions as to how to rebuild.

Another thread on the T180 says the Telemaster is pretty similar. Plans for the Telemaster are on Outerzone where you can download plans free for that and many different models together with instructions. Once downloaded plans can be printed off in sections on an A4 printer or much better put onto a memory stick and taken to a copy shop for printing full size.

[Victor Allen 1]

Thanks to all for the suggestions and help.

I may resort to the T240 as the pandemic seems to be a long term event.

Stay safe all and good luck with the many new projects.

Vic

[kc]

Victor, I hope you have got the right engine for the T240 because I notice that SLEC say the T240 " T-240 will fly very happily on a standard 91cu.in (10cc) 2 stroke " but of course .91 cu inch is not 10cc .......... 10cc is a .61 cu inch. I wonder which is the right engine for this model? Of course one could argue that either would fly the model but which is the 'correct' one ( just the right amount of power to fly nicely as a trainer)? No doubt someone here on the forum will know.......

[David Davis]

I used to have one powered by a Thunder Tigre 91 four stroke. On the floor in the picture below. It just flew it. Colleagues were impressed by its realistic ie lengthy take offs and very gradual climb out. I sold it to a mate who put a 120 fourstroke into it. That suited it much better.

Based on my experience I'd say a T240 needs a minimum of a 91 two stroke (15cc) or a 20cc four stroke.

[Robin Colbourne]

From my experience, the T180 is not the perfect trainer. They tend to lack elevator authority, particularly if you have to land 'dead stick' and are a bit vulnerable to damage around the top of the cabin area.
You can improve the elevator authority by having a constant section elevator (i.e. the trailing edge of the elevator is as thick as its leading edge).

How about finding a large, cheap trainer on which to get some experience, whilst you build that T180/T240?

Something like this with a good clean up and check over might do the job: Large trainer type model in Kent

If you like the Precedent style of construction and want something to build in the meantime, there's a HiBoy Mk2 kit for sale here.  He says its incomplete, but the bits he lists as missing, with the possible exception of the wheels, don't come with the kit anyway.  He's also willing to post it.  Precedent HiBoy Kit in East Sussex

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 01/04/2020 21:18:16

[Bruce Collinson]

I have a plan and a glassfibre cowl. Might have a repaired wing too. Happy to talk about them if they will help.

I found it very stodgy to fly although it was in my first season where circuits and a damage-free landing on the strip were a cause for celebration. Flew on an OS FP 40, just enough but I’m sure a 60 or 70 four stroke would fly it with more authority.

The 240 is a pretty big aircraft, there’s one at my club. Think it flies on a Zenoah 20. I suspect there are far better primary trainers out there.

BTC

[David Davis]

I'm not quite sure Vic whether you still have your T180 or not. If you still have it and it only needs slight refurbishment you could do it up, treat the radio to a new set of batteries and fly it once the new restrictions have been lifted.

Having taught,or attempted to teach, quite a few elderly gentlemen to fly, and at sixty-eight Vic you're just a youth, I would like to offer a few alternatives:

1. That you buy an ARTF trainer, assemble that and learn to fly with it, again when the current restrictions have been lifted. My favourite ARTF trainer is the Seagull Boomerang. Unlke most trainers it has a semi-symmetrical wing section which means that it's capable of flying in a breeze without it ballooning all over the place. As a raw beginner you should only be flying in light winds but once you've gained some competence the Boomerang will fly well in less than perfect conditions. Shove a ballraced 46 in it and you're away. I recommend an ARTF because trainers are easily damaged or even destroyed during the learning process and there's less emotional involvement in an ARTF than there is in something you've built yourself. Crashing something which you've put a lot of yourself into can be very disheartening.
2. I realise that you want to build something but there's nothing to stop you from buying an ARTF and building something else. But what to choose? I have found that many elderly beginners are happier with a three channel vintage model which is automatically stable having been based on free-flight technolgy. Three channel models have no ailerons and you turn them using the rudder. I would like to recommend three which are available as kits from Ben Buckle or you may download the plans from the Outerzone for free. These are the Junior 60, the Super 60 and the Radio Queen. The Junior 60 and Super 60 are both about five feet in the wingspan,the Radio Queen is a bit larger at nearly seven feet in the wingspan and you may see mine in my last post. I love the Junior 60's gentle flying characteristics but the Super 60 is a better trainer and capable of flying in a breeze. Here's a couple of pictures of my Junior 60 in flight and my Super 60 on the ground. Even once you've learned to fly a vintage model is nice to have. I even know of 3D merchants who keep a vintage model to relax with. Belair Kits also offer the Junior 60 and Super 60 either as a plan pack or a parts set.
3. If not a vintage model consider WOT 4 as a second model. They are available as kits or as ARTFs. They have foam wings and sheet fuselages and tailplanes but they fly beautifully once you've mastered a four-channel trainer.
4. Fancy a more traditional rib, spar and longeron type of build? DB Sport and scale offers the Barnstormer and the Skyrider as a plan pack. **LINK**They also offer scale models of the Piper Cub and the Auster which are available as full kits.
5. Finally the Precedent HiBoy is a bit of a marmite choice. I'll just say this. If you can fly one of those you can fly anything!

Well that's my two-pennorth. I'm off to work on my Big Guff. I started to build it exactly a year ago! **LINK**

Edited By David Davis on 02/04/2020 08:43:40

[Victor Allen 1]

Hi David.

Many thanks for the information and suggestions,all gratefully received. I no longer have the T180 but just had a yearning to build one again. I Have a WOT 4 Mk2 foamy ARTF model which is ready to go as soon as the current restrictions are lifted and I can find a local club with a very patient person to give me lessons. I also have a DBSports Sopwith Pup E kit on the building board at the moment, and a Sarik models Spitfire kit in the loft as a major project for some time in the future. I practice regularly on my RF8 Simulator although I don't think it's as good as my old Phoenix simulator was. I really wanted to get hold of a T180 just for the trip down memory lane but a T240 is on the way in the post as of last evening. I don't think it would be a good trainer due to its vast size but as a project, the building of it appeals to me. So much has changed since I last went to the flying field and I am quite a shy person for all my years so this will be a major undertaking for me. Thanks again for everything. It really is very much appreciated.

Vic.

[David Davis]

Well done Vic! I was thinking that you could build a T240 anyway while learning to fly on something else. Like a vintage model, the T240 is a nice relaxing flyer once you've learned how to fly.

As for the WOT 4 Foam-E, I once recommended it to a very nervous trainee who is nine years older than me. He had grown up with free flight and control line models and looked at the WOT 4's specification with horror! Flat wing, ailerons!

He'd forgotten about its wing loading and how slowly it's capable of flying. Once he'd flown it, he was a changed man and he now flies 20cc powered models as well as his beloved vintage stuff.

Keep the speed up when landing your Sopwith Pup but if you're in the market for a new four-stroke engine for the T240, I'd recommend a (British) Laser unreservedly. A 100 may fly it but I'd go for the 155 myself.

 

Edited By David Davis on 02/04/2020 15:38:12

[Victor Allen 1]

Hi David. I've just looked at the Laser 155 and agree that it will be a great match with the T240. However.

I can't see how to order one from their website. Any ideas?

Vic

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Victor Allen 1 on 02/04/2020 16:25:25:

Hi David. I've just looked at the Laser 155 and agree that it will be a great match with the T240. However.

I can't see how to order one from their website. Any ideas?

Vic

Give them a call. BTW I've got the older Laser 150 in my Seagull Maxilift 88" wingspan, a very nice match.

[Robin Colbourne]

Victor, Just in case you are still looking for Precedent T180/T240, this one came up in East Grinstead on Facebook Marketplace. He says its 8' span so may its a T240, otherwise he's a fisherman and its actually a T180!

Precedent T180/T240 in East Grinstead on Facebook Marketplace

[David Davis]

Victor, Just in case you are still looking for Precedent T180/T240, this one came up in East Grinstead on Facebook Marketplace. He says its 8' span so may its a T240, otherwise he's a fisherman and its actually a T180!

Precedent T180/T240 in East Grinstead on Facebook Marketplace

 

It looks like a very nice T240 to me. A bargain at the price too.

Edited By David Davis on 01/06/2020 11:19:02