RAF's Finest Biplane? Hawker Fury MkI

[Danny Fenton]

Great information Jose. Does the spinner now fit the plan?
Guys when you start studying the plan can you look at those ply ribs in the centre section. They are not cut how I would interpret the drawing. To me the ribs should be in three parts. That could be just me misinterpreting the drawing. I would be interested in your thoughts?
A friend has a copy of those buil notes and has offered me a copy, I look forward to reading the article.
Welcome aboard Jose

Cheers
Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 11/11/2017 09:49:42

[Jose L. G.]

Thanks Danny.

The spinner I`ve received is the old one, bigger than the cowl. In the begining I wasn`t going to order it but the discount is over the full kit, so I included it,

I can use the spinner to make a carbon/fiber one with a ply backplate.

I`ll check the plan ribs you comment. Probably I`ll made the wing in three parts with the center (top and botton) attached to the fuse permanently.

Cheers.

Jose Luis

[Martian]

I will check my parts from Dylan against the plan asap

[McG 6969]

Hi Danny,

If this apprentice is allowed an opinion, I guess your 'three parts' approach should be right.

If I understand correctly, the plan shows the rib in one piece though.

The idea seems to be that the concerned central ribs should be cut by the builder. The same apparently for the ribs at the ailerons locations where the hatched part should be removed.

I hope I'm not writing down stupid things.

By the way, does somebody has some .pdfs of the (RCSI 2004) 3 parts article mentioned above? If so, I would like to receive a copy and have a look at it. Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Chris

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Chris yep you have spotted what I am referring too. However if it is cut into three how is integrity maintained? Possibly sheeting will do that?
I would like to see a pdf too but copyright laws might preclude that.
Cheers
Danny

[Daithi O Buitigh]

I think there's an exemption here Danny: From the relevant legislation:

s32.—Illustration for instruction Fair dealing with a work for the purposes of instruction does not infringe copyright as long as not for commercial purposes."

Edited By Daithi O Buitigh on 11/11/2017 12:38:39

[Danny Fenton]

Ahhhh okay that's interesting
Chris, i think you may be right, perhaps a guide line should be on the cut parts?
Cheers
Danny

[McG 6969]

Hi again,

Yippie-yeeaaah... so, if somebody has the .pdfs at hand, I shouldn't even have to pay for it...

I had another look at the plan, Danny. I don't think 'integrity' would be a problem.

For the top wing, both external center section ribs are 6mm, reinforced by the B2s and B3s. The internal ribs have more a function of keeping the airfoil shape.

Regarding the bottom wing, I think that B4, both B5 & B6, together with C1 and C2 are doing the job. Together with the sheeting, of course.

Anyhow a tiny 'engraving' of the bits at the right 'removal' locations would be a great help for cutting.

Thanks again for your commitment.

Cheers

Chris

[kc]

Chris, it is normal to build wings with the ribs in one piece then once wing has been assembled cut through the front (or rear) and insert brace then cut the other end. The brace then holds one end so the other cut can be made. A bit similar on ailerons too. Much easier to deal with ribs all in one piece than assemble lots of individual small parts.

A razor saw which is deep enough to make the whole cut or a very fine 'japanese' pull saw is the tool of choice for this work. Marking guidelines for the cuts before asembling wing is a good idea

[McG 6969]

You're absolutely right, KC. One piece ribs are quite easier to handle. But sometimes there is no other way. If you have to build a full depth laminated main spar - like often with Depron builds - you have to cope with individual parts for the ribs.

In this case, that's how Mr Bryant designed the Fury. Also the plan clearly notes "Not for beginners"...

I'm now wondering what I'm doing here...

Cheers

Chris

[Danny Fenton]

Yes guys you are quite right keep the ribs as one then seperate.
Chris if you are following this conversation then you will be fine, and well capable
I am thinking of adding rib tabs to keep the wing straight. No washout.
Cheers
Danny

[McG 6969]

Rib tabs should definitely be a nice improvement, Danny.

Where do you project to locate them ('lengthwise', I mean - as I'm a bit afraid somebody would answer "at the bottom"!) on the rib?

Cheers

Chris

[Danny Fenton]

I haven't looked at that area of the plan yet. I would normally suggest just behind leading edge and in front of trailing edge. If we are cunning we may be able to include the ailerons in the tab so that when they are cut away if that is how they are made then they too will stay flat. I have a feeling the ailerons are constructed in a rather overly difficult way which is why I hesitate. Richard D also aluded to this when he said he struggled to work them out.

There is still a lot of figuring out to do before we can glue balsa

All good fun and part of the process. By the time October arrives we should have a clear idea of what we are going to do....... If I say it quickly do you believe me???

Cheers

Danny

[Mark Elen]

Danny,

You'll have to say it quicker than that for me to believe you😂

Ive got the plan and am wondering what I've let myself in for😂 Looking forward to the challenge though.

all the best

Mark

[Martyn K]

The way i would approach the ribs that enclose the braces would be to build the panel upto where the braces fit the ribs. Add the spars, fit the braces then fit those ribs around the spars. I can't see any advantage to splitting the ribs afterwards. Its always tricky trying to slice the ribs accurately when they are in situ. I would rather trim them where I can the line I am cutting.

[Martyn K]

Looking at the wing section, I think I would set the tabs so they support the rib correctly but also angled and long enough to hold the TE at the correct angle. Which does not appear to be horizontal.

[McG 6969]

Hello all,

Hi Danny,

I had a restless night with some views of floating ribs all around the room.

Not from my own experience of course, but I think I could second Martyn's point of view about trimming the ribs in situ.

So I started to ponder about a solution to adapt the rib tabs for either central section and aileron location. Trying to keep one type of rib for both applications, I came up with this:

Four tabs in total with the TE one being 'larger' and able to fully support the aileron part.

For the central section the cutting can be done flat while the ribs remain straight to the board for later assembly.

For the aileron section, the shaded part can be cut out, ready to receive the wing TE & the aileron LE.

Maybe including a few 'spare ribs' (!!?) in the kit, for those like me that could have a blond moment when preparing the different versions...

I guess i'll better take care of my fever now and head back to bed...

Cheers

Chris

Edited By McG 6969 on 12/11/2017 11:22:47

[Danny Fenton]

I like your thinking Chris, my only comment would be that removing those tabs will be difficult unless partially laser cut. If you recall some of the ribs are ply so removing the tabs afterward will be very difficult.

Martyn has suggested lifting the front of the rib so that the trailing edge lower surface is flat to the building board. I can see his logic and it is also a good idea, however it makes wing panel joining (to the centre section) more difficult.

Keep churning the ideas around we will get there

Cheers

Danny

[Martyn K]

I only use one tab for symmetrical and semi symmetrical sections. They tend to be quite long but laser cut for about 50% of the width with the remaining 50% laser marked and can be easily sliced off.

I think Danny misunderstood what I was suggesting. The wing ribs are horizontal, but my suggestion was to extend the rear building tab behind the rib to support the narrow TE section at the correct angle. The trick of course is not to glue the TE to the tab..

On the Fury plan, the TE is actually a composite of 1/4 x 1/16 balsa, top and bottom. I would be very inclined to actually cap the last 1/8" with spruce to help keep it stiff. I know it adds a little weight but it also adds a huge amount of stiffness and ding proofs it.

This is what my proposed wing template will look like (from the aileron area). - Black is laser cut, Red is laser marked

Martyn

[McG 6969]

Thanks, Danny, but I presume that's the difference between 'experienced' and 'apprentice'.

Indeed and as Martyn suggests as well, the tabs could be laser cut to half of the depth of the material.

I must be missing something but I can't find ply ribs for the top wing. They seem to be 1,5mm balsa except for 2x 6mm ones at the center section. I guess I must have a better look.

Also the plan doesn't show any holes in the ribs for bell crank rods or servo wires. Is this correct?

I'm going to draw a rib 'type' for each section of the top wing starting with my drawing above. I guess it could give a better view of things.

Cheers

Chris

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Chris I am drawing the ribs so dont go mad I would suggest we go for a servo in each wing on this one as we need to control differential quite carefully. So we need a hole for a paper tube for the servo lead.
I think my cursory glance picked out ply lower centre section ribs and balsa on the upper, but it was just a quick look.i would leave tabs off any ply ribs.
Martyns idea of tabs supporting the trailing edge would work on a model with stiffer trailing edge but i think for this one the trailing edge may sag/distort between ribs so I am not sure I would go that route. I wont be adding spruce though.....too heavy! Maybe something to stiffen the trailing edge would be nice, perhaps some very thin G10 between the 1/16 x 1/4 trailing edges.
Cheers
Danny

[Martyn K]

Where are you thinking of putting the servo Danny and what access do you envisage? That bit has got me scratching me head as well.

Regarding spruce TE capping. It will only add about 3 or 4 gms per panel. Its something we used to do on some free flight contest models and they are far more weight conscious.. With my inherent built in clumsiness, I need all the help I can get 

At the end of the day, we will all do things slightly differently, that's the fun of the mass build

 

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 13/11/2017 15:42:02

[richard dalgleish]

Hi All

Just been reading some of the latest posts. Regarding fitting of the wing braces, i simply used a razor saw to cut the ribs where shown and slotted in the braces, don't remember having any difficulties.

For the aileron servos i used the Hitec slim wing servos, i think HS125s ??, one on each aileron. I have hundreds of build pictures but unfortunately they are on a old desk top PC now gathering dust up in the loft.

I do have the copy of the feature in RC Scale International if anyone wants a copy? I think it was that feature that inspired me to build mine.

Regards, Richard

[Martyn K]

Hi Richard,

Can you drop me an email at [email protected] to discuss getting a copy of the article. I'll happily distribute it to anyone who wants a copy.

Thanks

Martyn

[richard dalgleish]

Hi Martyn

I'll dig it out tonight, i think it was spread over three issues. I'll send you an email later on tonight.

Richard