BMFA Future

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

3 hours ago, Mr.B. said:

I assume Cymaz is referring to this section of the Articles or Association as recently circulated by the BMFA ahead of the AGM.  I see nothing untoward here.  We can't expect the BMFA officers to represent us and work on our behalf but deny them finical protection.

 

6.4.2. Insurance
6.4.2.1. The Board may decide to purchase and maintain insurance, at the expense of the Society, for the benefit of any relevant Director in respect of any relevant loss.
6.4.2.2. In this Article:
6.4.2.2.1. a "relevant Director" means any Director or former Director of the Society or an associated company;
6.4.2.2.2. a "relevant loss" means any loss or liability which has been or may be incurred by a relevant Director in connection with that Director's duties or powers in relation to the Society, any associated company or any pension fund or employees' share scheme of the Society or associated company;
6.4.2.2.3. and companies are associated if one is a subsidiary of the other or both are subsidiaries of the same body corporate.

 

Also

 

6.4. Directors' Indemnity and Insurance
6.4.1. Indemnity
6.4.1.1. Subject to Article 6.3.1.2 6.4.1.2 a relevant Director of the Society or an associated company may be indemnified out of the Society's assets against:
6.4.1.1.1. any liability incurred by that Director in connection with any negligence, default, breach of duty or breach of trust in relation to the Company Society or an associated company;
6.4.1.1.2. any liability incurred by that Director in connection with the activities of the Company Society or an associated company in its capacity as a trustee of an occupational pension scheme (as defined in Section 235(6) of the 2006 Act);
6.4.1.1.3. any other liability incurred by that Director as an officer of the Society or an associated company.
6.4.1.2. This Article does not authorise any indemnity which would be prohibited or rendered void by any provision of the Companies Acts or by any other provision of law.

Clubs should have something similar in their constitutions to protect the committee. The BMFA sample club constitution has a couple of clauses that effectively do the same thing, if your club doesn't have it covered i  your constitution I would very strongly advise you amend the constitution asap.

From the sample constitution....

 

INSURANCE AND INDEMNITY

62. The club will hold both Civil and Employers Liability Insurance, provided through affiliation to the BMFA. 

63. The club will indemnify all committee officers and committee members if they incur any liability on behalf of the club. 

64. In the event of a Committee Member being awarded damages or costs in the course of proceedings taken by him in his representative capacity, such damages or costs will belong to the Club and not the Committee Member personally and upon receipt that Committee Member will pay them to the Club Treasurer.

[Andy48]

2 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

Clubs should have something similar in their constitutions to protect the committee. The BMFA sample club constitution has a couple of clauses that effectively do the same thing, if your club doesn't have it covered i  your constitution I would very strongly advise you amend the constitution asap.

From the sample constitution....

 

INSURANCE AND INDEMNITY

62. The club will hold both Civil and Employers Liability Insurance, provided through affiliation to the BMFA. 

63. The club will indemnify all committee officers and committee members if they incur any liability on behalf of the club. 

64. In the event of a Committee Member being awarded damages or costs in the course of proceedings taken by him in his representative capacity, such damages or costs will belong to the Club and not the Committee Member personally and upon receipt that Committee Member will pay them to the Club Treasurer.

 

Surely it is in the interest of every club to have this sort of indemnity? Who would stand for membership to the committee without it? There are always one or two nutters in clubs who will take things too far pointing fingers at committee members. As an example, some years ago as Treasurer, a couple of our members made the accusation that I was using the club credit card for my own ends. Firstly there was no club credit card, and secondly the accounts were fully audited, and would show up any payment from club funds to pay for said fictitious credit card. Had it gone much further I would have been glad of that cover. As it was these members fairly quickly became ex members.

[cymaz]

6 hours ago, cymaz said:

It seems Mr B has a reasonable explanation....I'm happy with that. And yes, grass roots members have been asking questions about why have insurance just with the BMFA if there are other insurers around. 

Would anyone not shop about for car or house insurance??

 

As I stated at the beginning, this is some grass root membership feelings. I just wanted to gauge some opinions...boy, I’ve achieved that. 

 

At no point did I put forward my personal views regarding insurance.

Mr B and others have put to rest a concern I had. I can take that back to deepest SW.

[Bruce Collinson]

Upon insurance, in a commercial context I can attest to the following.

• in any non-domestic context, volume equals discount; we insured a fleet of c. 12 assorted cars on a good well-brokered fleet policy for c. half of the individual cost with significantly better cover, no quibbling about 23 yr old drivers, any driver, automatic courtesy cover etc (boy how I miss that, an hour and £30 every time my car needs to see the garage)
• my former company manages c. 5,500 properties and has for years had about 80% of them on one block policy which is so well brokered that it is rare for claims to be rejected, the brokers do all the claims handling and it is significantly cheaper for the vast majority of clients with better cover and less volatility in the market on renewal
• any corporate structure without D & O cover is a nightmare waiting to happen
• continuity counts.   Our PI cover was re-brokered every 18m and existing insurers/underwriters were usually the most competitive, because they understood the risks better.

Put that into the context of BMFA cover and it seems exceptionally unlikely that directly equivalent cover would be available, certainly in Year 2, for less money and frankly if it was, the underwriter would change but given the niche nature of the risk it seems pretty unlikely to me.

 

Cheapest is very rarely the best.

 

I understand that the existing underwriters have a very good record of handling claims.

 

Nuff written?

 

BTC

[Geoff S]

6 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

Clubs should have something similar in their constitutions to protect the committee. The BMFA sample club constitution has a couple of clauses that effectively do the same thing, if your club doesn't have it covered i  your constitution I would very strongly advise you amend the constitution asap.

From the sample constitution....

 

INSURANCE AND INDEMNITY

62. The club will hold both Civil and Employers Liability Insurance, provided through affiliation to the BMFA. 

63. The club will indemnify all committee officers and committee members if they incur any liability on behalf of the club. 

64. In the event of a Committee Member being awarded damages or costs in the course of proceedings taken by him in his representative capacity, such damages or costs will belong to the Club and not the Committee Member personally and upon receipt that Committee Member will pay them to the Club Treasurer.

 

Exactly. My main club official experience has been with sailing and cycling clubs.  My wife is just retiring from her post as Treasurer of the local quite big cycle club after 40 years and she certainly wouldn't have taken the post without indemnity via insurance for the remote possibility of being sued. It really is essential  - especially if you own your own home and thus have a large capital asset to be taken into account.

[Engine Doctor]

The " Grass root members"  in the south west need to think about others who put lots of time and effort into running thier clubs and what happens / could happen  to them if they , the garss root members cause a problem . Tell them to stop being selfish,  grow up and look at the real world scenario of running a club and the very real threat of legal action against committee members should the proverbial hit the fan . 

Often the disquiet is started by selfish individuals who are only interested in their own activities with no thought for others.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Engine Doctor

[Peter Christy]

Please don't tar all "south-west" members with the same brush! All my fellow club members here in south-west Devon seem pretty relaxed about the forthcoming changes. I've circulated the BMFA emails to them all, and they have produced virtually no response. I take that as meaning they are happy! 😉

 

I'm not sure where Cymaz is located, but his most recent post suggests that it was a small minority grumbling - not him personally - and he was trying to gauge how widespread the feeling was. I think he has his answer!

 

I don't have a problem with his question. In any club, there will always be someone grumbling about something. Usually, once they realise there is little support for their grievance, they give in gracefully. I think their query has been thoroughly answered, and we can rely on Cymaz to deliver the response to them.

 

--

Pete

 

[ken anderson.]

the BMFA is reguarly discussed...how good it is/or bad it is.....i wonder how long are hobby would survive without it? as it does seem to be a big part of it,more so since all the rules and regs were increased in recent times.

ken Anderson...ne...1...BMFA dept. 

[kevin b]

Somebody will always complain. It is human nature.

Quote "What did the Romans do for us ?"

The gene pool, like many others has a shallow end as well as a deep end.

As is obvious in many walks of life, you can't teach intelligence.

[cymaz]

3 hours ago, Peter Christy said:

Please don't tar all "south-west" members with the same brush! All my fellow club members here in south-west Devon seem pretty relaxed about the forthcoming changes. I've circulated the BMFA emails to them all, and they have produced virtually no response. I take that as meaning they are happy! 😉

 

I'm not sure where Cymaz is located, but his most recent post suggests that it was a small minority grumbling - not him personally - and he was trying to gauge how widespread the feeling was. I think he has his answer!

 

I don't have a problem with his question. In any club, there will always be someone grumbling about something. Usually, once they realise there is little support for their grievance, they give in gracefully. I think their query has been thoroughly answered, and we can rely on Cymaz to deliver the response to them.

 

--

Pete

 

Yes,  way down in the SW. There have been grumblings about the merger of Devon and Cornwall. I'm trying to gauge opinion and views as to why a few members here should/could take a more proactive role.

I send out regular bulletins and updates for my club. I very rarely get a mail reply but when asked they had them

Edited November 3, 2022 by cymaz

[Peter Christy]

Hi Cymaz, perhaps your members need reminding that Devon & Cornwall were always considered a single area - well, at least up until a meeting a decade or so ago which ended up with the Devon part being suspended!

 

This was before I retired, so i was still living on the outskirts of London at the time, despite being born & bred in Torbay. The version of events I've heard since I returned seems somewhat at odds with what I recall being told at the time, but that's all water under the bridge.

 

I know a lot of the Devon clubs were fairly ambivalent about recreating the area. However, without a functioning area, it was difficult to keep track of where area funds were going, and quite a few people were asking awkward questions! It was also difficult for things like the Achievement Scheme to function properly.

 

I was surprised that all the Cornish representatives seemed to quit when the area committee was re-convened. I haven't had much to do with it (did my bit for the BMFA a long time ago!), but the new guys seem to be doing a reasonable job as far as I can tell. Certainly communication is much better. I'm sure if some of your "grumblers" wanted to get involved, they would be welcomed with open arms!

 

I would certainly recommend trying to get them more involved.

 

Best of luck!

 

--

Pete

 

[cymaz]

Cheers Pete,

I am involved in the new SW Area. I put my name in the hat to try and help. 

I will not be chastised for posting other BMFA members views. There are some who don't read what's put in front of them, or respond and then moan. 

I can't do anything about that. What I can do is keep in mind what's been said here and report back. 

[Peter Christy]

Absolutely! 👍

 

--

Pete