Odd Receiver linking issue

[Sam Longley]

Futaba 14Sg transmitter. 2 No 617fs receivers,( not crashed, new in planes) Calamito low wing plane On transmitter logged into transmitter as " Calamito.  plus top wing trainer plane logged into transmitter  as "Trainer Del"

Because I have not been flying for some time   I have recently paid for  5/ 1 hour training sessions with an experienced trainer at our club on the Calamito hooked up as a buddy system with connecting wire to instructor's transmitter

. I have also done some flying on trainer del without instruction as it is so docile.

Last saturday I decided to fly the calamito on my own. This meant linking the receiver to my transmitter as in buddy mode it was linked to the instructors transmitter.

When I did this I found that the control surfaces were wild. ie build instructions suggest aerolons  7mm up/down & mine were 25mm each way. Elevator was also very wild. Expo was 5%.

I rang instructor & he said that all I needed to do was link the receiver & there would be no issue as these were the settings that I had been flying to with no problem.  So I should not worry. Incidentally I have the transmitter set so I have to select the model every time I turn it on. All batteries are charged & have good current- We checked.

 

First flight was terrible. All surfaces made plane want to crash & I had to call for assistance from an experienced flyer who adjusted my trims whilst i tried to control the plane. With trims on max I was able to effect a landing. The flyer then looked at the plane & adjusted my trims on the transmitter ( I find the Futaba almost impossible to understand as being so user unfriendly instruction wise)  I did another flight with him by my side & we got the plane flying true. I did another flight OK

Today I did one other flight Ok.

Now here comes the problem. I went to do a second flight on the calamito & the receiver had unbound itself. No amount of help from other Futaba users at the club could get it to link.

I rang the shop where I buy most stuff ( but not the transmitter so they are a bit unhelpful & they say transmitter is shot) to speak to the instructor, but he was not there, but an assistant suggested range checks etc, but no point as it would not bind

I thought that I would try my trainer del plane to see what would happen with that receiver

As soon as I turned it on ( Note that the calamito was still turned on) BOTH receivers were immediately linked. BOTH plane@s controls worked on trainer del

I also realised that the mad controls that I originally had when I switched from the instructor's controls to mine were the trainer dell controls. Ie the elevator on trainer del DOES have wild movement & it DOES have 5% expo because on the trainer I do not need expo & I like lots of control movement as it is so docile.

 

I flew trainer del & it flew perfectly

 

So my problem is this-- How can I make my Calamito work correctly . Why would it unlink?  Why would it suddenly change to Trainer del from calamito ?

Is the transmitter really Knackered, or is this just a known software glitch due to the change from the buddy lead?  Is it just a case of deleting the calamito settings  & re entering them again? What i do not want is for it to unlink in flight

Any ideas, suggestions please on the best way to proceed. I do not want to send it back to Ripmax, Last time I did that it was gone for 4 months & ended up in Germany & cost £ 175-00

I am told 14sg's are not made anymore, a new transmitter needs to work with my 617fs receivers

Sorry for the length I need to explain fully

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Sam Longley

[Denis Watkins]

So as I can check, can you quote the Model number of the instructors transmitter Sam.

[kc]

There is a Futaba Compatibilty Chart here which will show which Rx work with various Tx.

Basically the only new Tx for FASST Rx are the very expensive ones.   However the old and discontinued once popular 6EX do work as you can see from the chart.    Plenty around and still in regular use.

 

It's worth noting that any Futaba Tx with the square trainer plug can be used as a buddy ( see the Tx manual ), so you could obtain even a 35 mhz Tx to have your own buddy system.   This might prevent the current problem once set up.

Edited February 6, 2023 by kc

[Sam Longley]

2 hours ago, Denis Watkins said:

So as I can check, can you quote the Model number of the instructors transmitter Sam.

His is a  is a futaba 18 channel. he has a number of them. He is a model shop owner & does 3 days a week training as a commercial enterprise.  i might add that I have had over 40 lessons over the years. However, first for my A test then I often buddy up when flying a new plane for the first time. In the past he has set me up with new rates before handing it back, not on the buddy. On the buddy i tend to have it on higher rates so I can practice better rolls loops etc. ( because he will get me out of trouble if necessary) & then when i go on my own I start off a bit lower for a while. So I have never noticed the issue of swopping one to the other myself before.

[Andy Gates]

Sam,

 

Could it be that when you bound the "Calamito" to your transmitter for you to fly on your own, that you accidentally bound it to your "Trainer Del" model memory because that is what it sounds like has happened?

[Sam Longley]

22 minutes ago, Andy Gates said:

Sam,

 

Could it be that when you bound the "Calamito" to your transmitter for you to fly on your own, that you accidentally bound it to your "Trainer Del" model memory because that is what it sounds like has happened?

No my mates checked that. That was one of their queries. Plus I had already flown it for 4 flights over 2 days as Calamito & I had just done one flight as calamoto. When one turns the transmitter on it automatically shows the last plane used & one has to select it or physically change it to another.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Sam Longley

[Denis Watkins]

15 hours ago, Sam Longley said:

Is it just a case of deleting the calamito settings  & re entering them again?

Just do that Sam

The Futaba is virtually bulletproof.

I suspect the transmitter is doing exactly as it is set, with some spurious setting.

Just rebind and do a range test as normal.

[MattyB]

Suggested tests...

1. Take prop off model (assuming it is electric; if IC, don't bother)
2. Create new clean model memory, but don't adjust any settings
3. Bind RX to new memory (make sure you are using the correct protocol, Futaba have many!). Check all controls work (don't worry about setup initially).
4. If it does work, then setup the model with the correct rates, expo, flight modes etc from scratch and treat it as a new model maiden (i.e. full range test etc) before flying.
5. If controls don't work on rebind, swap for a different RX and try binding that to the same memory.
6. If you are still seeing inconsistencies, try binding the RXs you've been using to a friends FASST TX; if they behave the same on a different TX, you know it's the RXs, but if not it must be something in your TX.

[Sam Longley]

Denis

That is what I will try later today. If that does not work i will get another transmitter. But i might look at FRsky. No one else in the club has one which will make getting help difficult.

However, the videaos seem to suggest that it is much easier than Futaba. None of the members have a good word for Spectrum. Most ex spectrum owners having changed over.

I just wonder if there is natural animosity against the mainstream manufacturers & if Frsky is any good or not. I need to search this forum for comments

[Sam Longley]

2 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Suggested tests...

1. Take prop off model (assuming it is electric; if IC, don't bother)
2. Create new clean model memory, but don't adjust any settings
3. Bind RX to new memory (make sure you are using the correct protocol, Futaba have many!). Check all controls work (don't worry about setup initially).
4. If it does work, then setup the model with the correct rates, expo, flight modes etc from scratch and treat it as a new model maiden (i.e. full range test etc) before flying.
5. If controls don't work on rebind, swap for a different RX and try binding that to the same memory.
6. If you are still seeing inconsistencies, try binding the RXs you've been using to a friends FASST TX; if they behave the same on a different TX, you know it's the RXs, but if not it must be something in your TX.

Thanks. That is cheaper than forking out for a new tranny. Will try options first.

[MattyB]

2 hours ago, Sam Longley said:

Denis

That is what I will try later today. If that does not work i will get another transmitter. But i might look at FRsky. No one else in the club has one which will make getting help difficult.

However, the videos seem to suggest that it is much easier than Futaba. None of the members have a good word for Spectrum. Most ex spectrum owners having changed over.

I just wonder if there is natural animosity against the mainstream manufacturers & if Frsky is any good or not. I need to search this forum for comments

 

RC brand loyalty is pretty tribal, almost everyone will recommend what they have and rubbish other stuff. In reality any modern system that using a full hopping spread spectrum protocol (FHSS) will be extremely reliable if setup correctly. In reality you should choose on aspects such as price, feel in the hands, degree of mixing functionality etc now, not channel counts and "reliable brands". 

[Frank Skilbeck]

I'm pretty sure the 14sg doesn't do model match, not with the 617 receivers that is, and the fact that the receiver works in the other model memory suggest the Rx and Tx are working. It does sound as though the Calamito model memory/settings may have got corrupted, maybe try deleting that model memory and setting it up again.

[Sam Longley]

Today, I deleted all data in the "Calamito" section & then turned on the receiver & transmitter & they linked within seconds. The rudder, elevator & throttle controls work OK It was indoors ( too cold in the workshop!!!) so I could not connect the wing. What I will do next is see if it has had any effect on my other 9  models.

Still worried as to why it unlinked after several flights.

[Frank Skilbeck]

You say the receiver unlinked but then worked on a different model memory, so that would indicate that the receiver was still responding to the transmitter. My 2pth worth is that model memory has become corrupted, so you move the sticks but while the Tx is still transmitting, the new servo positions are not updated.

 

 

[kc]

On 07/02/2023 at 13:41, Frank Skilbeck said:

I'm pretty sure the 14sg doesn't do model match, not with the 617 receivers

Most Futaba dont have model match but perhaps the instructors 18 channel set does?   If so that could be the reason why your Rx didn't recognise your own TX at the first stage.  

 

There is info here about the T18SZ having an update to a model match facility .

Edited February 9, 2023 by kc

[Sam Longley]

I am going to another thread re the FRsky x20s

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Hi Sam, no idea what caused your issue, but take a step back, go to the field/garden, put the TX in to range check mode try a few models give everything a good looking over, it may have been something you did that caused the issue, been there, done that.

[Sam Longley]

On 07/02/2023 at 10:43, MattyB said:

Suggested tests...

1. Take prop off model (assuming it is electric; if IC, don't bother)
2. Create new clean model memory, but don't adjust any settings
3. Bind RX to new memory (make sure you are using the correct protocol, Futaba have many!). Check all controls work (don't worry about setup initially).
4. If it does work, then setup the model with the correct rates, expo, flight modes etc from scratch and treat it as a new model maiden (i.e. full range test etc) before flying.
5. If controls don't work on rebind, swap for a different RX and try binding that to the same memory.
6. If you are still seeing inconsistencies, try binding the RXs you've been using to a friends FASST TX; if they behave the same on a different TX, you know it's the RXs, but if not it must be something in your TX.

Took your advice. -THANKS -Cleaned the data for the model. Relinked ( in seconds) Then set expo to same as before ie Zero on tail surfaces but 20% on ailerons left movement on all surfaces on pretty much max.

Flew the plane & needed 3 clicks on the ailerons.

Perfect flight, but something did surprise me & I am sure it was not just my imagination.

The whole thing seemed smoother !!! The turns worked smoother with the sticks as did the rise & falls. I did a few sets of 3 rolls & all went in a nice straight line.

Nothing jerky like it was before. Even smoother than on the buddy lead.

cannot explain it but I had 2 lovely smooth flights & take off & landings bought praise from the members.

So now very happy. Seem to have solved the issue- We hope

Edited February 11, 2023 by Sam Longley

[MattyB]

Good stuff. Sounds like the only thing left to do is make sure you ignore all advice given by your “friendly” local model shop owner in future! 😉