Are expensive Lipos worth the extra money?

[paul devereux]

This is how I fly: one battery each morning, 13 minutes flight time (which is why I need new Lipos!) to practice figure 8s, loops and practice landings (not touch and goes to save the u/c from stress). I definitely need to replace the batts as I now have to fly on nearly full throttle toward the end of a 6 minute flight.

3s 2200s vary from about £16 to over £30 each- is it cost effective to buy the more expensive ones? TIA

[Learner]

This could be a long thread!

My personal experience, bought 8 x 3s 2200 cheap from HK £7.00 each and have had good performance and longevity (150+flights each and counting) but are all on there way out now.

If I bought a £28 one (4× the cost) would I get 600 flights.

I dont think so!!

So my answer is No.

 

[J D 8]

              If batts are getting worked hard like EDF or high power aero's then it is worth having higher C ratings.

[paul devereux]

12 minutes ago, J D 8 said:

              If batts are getting worked hard like EDF or high power aero's then it is worth having higher C ratings.

C rating? I'll have to look that up.

[Cuban8]

As consumers of hobby Lipos, the difficulty we face is on what factual basis do we base our decision to buy brand X or brand Y?

Brand X is three time the price of brand Y?

Brand X is sold by a more well known name in the hobby trade than brand Y?

Anecdotal evidence from club mates or social media, or even this very forum?

 

I haven't looked, but maybe there have been tests on Youtube to investigate the issue, but over the years even when we had far more magazines than remain now, this and several  other issues that might be a bit contentious  with their advertisers have been skated around thus leaving us in the dark.

Not a new problem, of course. When Electric flight started to become much widely accepted back in the late 70s and early 80s, the cognosenti would dismiss anything other than Sanyo Red sub-Cs Nicads made up into selected packs. Naturally most of us couldn't afford the top prices asked for them and stuck with more budget brands from the many suppliers that were around (pre internet). I used to use a company called IIRC A1 batteries, who supplied either type and their cheaper packs performed well for me.

I think it comes down to taking a chance, which is unusual advice from me. Buy from a UK supplier that takes your fancy and is offering their product at an attractive price for your wallet.

 

 

[MattyB]

As you have just found out (link for future reference…):

…how you treat your packs (charge and discharge rates, depth of discharge, % of time stored at elevated SOC, temp at time of charge, storage temp etc.) is hugely influential on their life and long term performance. Because of this there is essentially no usable data to draw on to compare the performance of various brands, as there are no independent bodies with funding to do this kind of testing, and the mags will never go near it for fear of impacting their ad money.
 

Because of these factors I’d recommend you choose your packs as follows:

1. Work out the rough peak current the model will draw. In your case you already have it so can just run it upon the wattmeter to get the number.
2. Work out the C rating that represents for the pack size you will be using. Example - If peak current on a 3S 2200 is 44A, C rating is 44/2.2 = 20C.
3. Look for packs with at least a C rating 50% higher than your peak ratings.g in this case, 30C. This is because almost all manufacturers massively exaggerate their actual C rating.
4. Once you have bought your packs, check the cell voltages on a charger and validate they are all in balance within 0.05V. Also if your charger can measure internal resistance you should calculate their real world C rating using this calculator. Contact the retailer immediately without charging them if they are out of balance or the C rating is significantly lower than badged.

Longer term, the only way to truly understand how your packs are performing is to keep regular data on them, but few modellers can be bothered to do that in my experience. If you want to save money in the long run though it can be very effective, as by monitoring capacity and IR you can learn which packs are performing better than others and make future purchase decisions accordingly.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by MattyB

[leccyflyer]

I've never used the very inexpensive <£10 per pack lipos in that size, but some of my longest lived packs which are still in regular use after hundreds of flights and >7 years are my mid-priced G-Power 3s1p 2250mah packs. Those have been pretty much bullet proof and consistently delivered for years. Sadly they always seem to be out of stock. I certainly don't consider £20 to be expensive for a lipo pack, but I also use a great variety of different battery sizes, for different models and latterly have had to move to different brands, due to that poor stock situation.

 

That said, far and away the worse packs I ever had were the over hyped, over priced and bordeline fraudulent Flite Power Packs. £75+ for a 3s1p 3000mah pack and I didn't get more than half a dozen flights out of each of them. The most expensive per flight cost out of all of the lipos I've ever used. Best value and power-per-pound were Giantcod's Loong Max and latterly Tipple packs. Superb and at a great price. 

 

 

[MattyB]

Addition - I had forgotten that there are a few posters on RCGroups doing more scientific independent testing, but be prepared to do some additional reading in order to understand the results. Here is the monsterthread on the topic, the first few posts have been updated with the latest data for 2023…

 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons

Edited May 27, 2023 by MattyB

[leccyflyer]

2 hours ago, paul devereux said:

This is how I fly: one battery each morning, 13 minutes flight time (which is why I need new Lipos!) to practice figure 8s, loops and practice landings (not touch and goes to save the u/c from stress). I definitely need to replace the batts as I now have to fly on nearly full throttle toward the end of a 6 minute flight.

3s 2200s vary from about £16 to over £30 each- is it cost effective to buy the more expensive ones? TIA

If you are having to fly on nearly full throttle towards the end of your flight you really are caning your batteries due to attempting to stretch your flight time over that which your batteries can provide.

 

I don't recall that you ever came back with an answer to what the measured per cell voltage of your packs at the end of the flight was?

 

In the context of this topic, if you want to avoid chucking money away, whether on budget packs, mid priced packs or expensive packs, you really are going to have to get to grips with the basics of operating and monitoring your packs. Getting advice in this thread that "Yes, more expensive packs are worth the money" or "No, they aren't worth the extra money", really isn't going to help until you do that and figure out how to optimise your lipo usage. Caning a single pack for a morning's flying isn't going to work though, that's for sure.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

1 hour ago, MattyB said:

Addition - I had forgotten that there are a few posters on RCGroups doing more scientific independent testing, but be prepared to do some additional reading in order to understand the results. Here is the monsterthread on the topic, the first few posts have been updated with the latest data for 2023…

 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons

Interesting video featuring Jetmanjoe from that very RCgroups thread:

 

 

I suspect some of you will disagree with some of his findings/opinions, and I think he is wrong in what he says about the smaller (3s 2200 ish size) average club size plane packs, but a good watch nonetheless.

[leccyflyer]

Why is he wearing a lab coat? Does he work in a chippy? 🤣

[Cuban8]

59 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Why is he wearing a lab coat? Does he work in a chippy? 🤣

Used to be an indicator of your standing within the firm that I started work at in '73. Also sub divisions as to whether you were paid Monthly (senior grades), Fortnightly, or Weekly staff.

 

1. White lab coat - engineers, draughtsmen and scientists.

2. Blue coat - Toolmakers, storemen. Blue overalls - Electricians, maintenance.

3. Brown coat - Barrow pushers, assembly workers, sweeper uppers. Brown overalls - Painters, general building hands.

 

I think many old school firms had similar systems and other ideas that would seem strange to modern sensibilities.

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

It looks like another "what radio" thread of 50 pages and 2000 answers, he is my 'bit', get the highest rated C, they are all overexaggerated, more expensive and also heavier, from a reputable dealer, I have got through kilos ok the HK rubbish,,,

 

DON'T get the last volt out of them, that is what kills them, get a cheap low voltage warning buzzer.

 

opps and charge them on 1 C,,,,

 

49 pages to go,,,,😆

Edited May 27, 2023 by Paul De Tourtoulon
1 c

[leccyflyer]

2 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

It looks like another "what radio" thread of 50 pages and 2000 answers, he is my 'bit', get the highest rated C, they are all overexaggerated, more expensive and also heavier, from a reputable dealer, I have got through kilos ok the HK rubbish,,,

 

DON'T get the last volt out of them, that is what kills them, get a cheap low voltage warning buzzer.

 

opps and charge them on 1 C,,,,

 

49 pages to go,,,,😆

Got to say, that's really bad advice for someone on a budget, just beginning to learn and flying relatively low powered sports models, which certainly do not need the highest "C" packs,  with their associated additional expense and often dubious claims.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

48 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Got to say, that's really bad advice for someone on a budget, just beginning to learn and flying relatively low powered sports models, which certainly do not need the highest "C" packs,  with their associated additional expense and often dubious claims.

Buy cheap crap, buy twice,,,,,

 

Buy the highest that you can afford, it's no good putting a cheap tx 2s battery with a 10c rating on a plane,,,

 

I have seen it so many times,,,🤢

[leccyflyer]

Just now, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Buy cheap crap, buy twice,,,,,

 

Buy the highest that you can afford, it's no good putting a cheap tx 2s battery with a 10c rating on a plane,,,

 

I have seen it so many times,,,🤢

You should probably watch the video with the chap in a white coat, posted above.

 

Nobody is suggesting attempting to fly a model with a 2 cell transmitter battery.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 minute ago, leccyflyer said:

You should probably watch the video with the chap in a white coat, posted above.

 

Nobody is suggesting attempting to fly a model with a 2 cell transmitter battery.

Only posting what I have actually seen !!!!!

[Don Fry]

18 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Buy cheap crap, buy twice,,,,,

 

Buy the highest that you can afford, it's no good putting a cheap tx 2s battery with a 10c rating on a plane,,,

 

I have seen it so many times,,,🤢

Which puts you in the clutches of the reassuringly expensive shark. 
 

No clue re answer, I’m too lazy to check much, read enough to not run flat, or leave on full charge for long. And a amp gutsy fan needs a good battery. No that interested in leccy stuff, just use it. 

[kevin b]

7 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Used to be an indicator of your standing within the firm that I started work at in '73. Also sub divisions as to whether you were paid Monthly (senior grades), Fortnightly, or Weekly staff.

 

1. White lab coat - engineers, draughtsmen and scientists.

2. Blue coat - Toolmakers, storemen. Blue overalls - Electricians, maintenance.

3. Brown coat - Barrow pushers, assembly workers, sweeper uppers. Brown overalls - Painters, general building hands.

 

I think many old school firms had similar systems and other ideas that would seem strange to modern sensibilities.

 

I wear a black coat.

This is probably because I like to be awkward (it doesn't show the blood stains as much either).