toto Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 Errrrrr ..... and tulips ..... dont forget the tulips. Just another day at the office trying to achieve the impossible. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Oh yes of course, how could I forget Tulips from Amsterdam 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 Exactly ..... poor old Max Bygraves would be turning in his grave. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Good old Max I wanna tell you a story Bygraves 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 23, 2023 Author Share Posted November 23, 2023 Replacement snakes have arrived from SLEC That maybe Sundays work. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 26, 2023 Author Share Posted November 26, 2023 Looking like shed time today. Just about shook off the effects of the red wine from last nights wedding aniversary celebrations. Todays sermon will be the re-fitting of new snakes for the control surfaces ....... again. 3rd time lucky. As mentioned above in a earlier post, I will try and get some photos of how the snakes are " anchored " to provide stiffening and remove the potential of slop. A mixture of the original fixing points for the original metal push rods and maybe some additional fixing points added for a belt and braces approach. See you in the shed. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 26, 2023 Author Share Posted November 26, 2023 OK ....... in the shed and I have been re-installing new snakes for the elevators x 2 and rudder x 1. so above we have the rudder ...... and the 1st of the two elevators ....... The control horn for the elevators ( both ) will be getting moved .... thats my next job ..... The other elevator ....... Then we go inside the fuselage to see a mixture of existing push rod routes and where they were secured ... and some others that I have added. Some of the cross bracing pieces that the existing push rods had gone through had been broken so I have bodged a few bits of extra ply etc to provide fixings again. A bit rough but they work. you can see where the snakes exit the rear fuselage and they are a tight fit and wont move of their own accord ..... and again ..... The rear most cross brace was already a mess and did not hold the original push rod tubes at all. I've had to bodge some light ply in to hold things and there was very little room to work so it aint pretty .... again ..... some bodging going on but they are very secure now ... one of the more secure of the existing cross braces. coming out to the servo bay but this meant an unsupported 4 inches or so of tubing before reaching the servos ..... So ..... I started installing another cross brace to provide further fixing points .... and ...... there we have it ....... much better ....... just need to trim the outer and inner tubing to length and fit the various clevises etc for connection to the servos and rear horns. I'll start at the rear and work my way forwards. Starting by moving the control horns in better alignment with the elevator hinges .... and slightly more inwards towards the fuselage. I think this attempt will yield better results and the snakes will be more ridgid hopefully eradicating the potential for unwanted slop with the control surfaces. cheers for now toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, toto said: OK ....... in the shed and I have been re-installing new snakes for the elevators x 2 and rudder x 1. so above we have the rudder ...... and the 1st of the two elevators ....... The control horn for the elevators ( both ) will be getting moved .... thats my next job ..... The other elevator ....... Then we go inside the fuselage to see a mixture of existing push rod routes and where they were secured ... and some others that I have added. Some of the cross bracing pieces that the existing push rods had gone through had been broken so I have bodged a few bits of extra ply etc to provide fixings again. A bit rough but they work. you can see where the snakes exit the rear fuselage and they are a tight fit and wont move of their own accord ..... and again ..... The rear most cross brace was already a mess and did not hold the original push rod tubes at all. I've had to bodge some light ply in to hold things and there was very little room to work so it aint pretty .... again ..... some bodging going on but they are very secure now ... one of the more secure of the existing cross braces. coming out to the servo bay but this meant an unsupported 4 inches or so of tubing before reaching the servos ..... So ..... I started installing another cross brace to provide further fixing points .... and ...... there we have it ....... much better ....... just need to trim the outer and inner tubing to length and fit the various clevises etc for connection to the servos and rear horns. I'll start at the rear and work my way forwards. Starting by moving the control horns in better alignment with the elevator hinges .... and slightly more inwards towards the fuselage. I think this attempt will yield better results and the snakes will be more ridgid hopefully eradicating the potential for unwanted slop with the control surfaces. cheers for now toto You really need the exit points in the fuselage for the elevator snake as close to the horn as possible to stop any flex Edited November 26, 2023 by Learner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Or, if there is no room inside, add a support between the fuselage and snake, on the outside of the fuselage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Cripps Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 You mean like this, GG? I replaced the elevator pushrod on my Wot4 with a snake to help minimise water ingress when flying it with floats. As the pre-cut slot is well forward of the tailplane, I added a short balsa wedge in the angle to provide support to the snake outer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 26, 2023 Author Share Posted November 26, 2023 I'm actually looking at this very point as we type so to speak. It's not so bad on the side that has the elevator only ..... but on the other side where there is the elevator and rudder push rods .... things look a bit congested. I think I can ove the exit slot further rear which would help but it will mean a bit of filling and covering to hide the original exit points. I'm surprised the manufacturer didn't have these more accurate in the first place. In my opinion .... they have always been too far forward within the fuselage. I may be back in the shed and on the case later tonight. I have stopped for now. Cheers Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Try to keep both elevator pushrod lengths/mountings etc the same you dont want to introduce any difference to the throws/movement of the 2 elevators (I take it there not joined?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 26, 2023 Author Share Posted November 26, 2023 Hi Learner, I'll take a closer look at where the elevator pushrods exit the fuselage to see if they are similar in terms of length etc. I'll try and post back up with images. Cheers Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, toto said: Hi Learner, I'll take a closer look at where the elevator pushrods exit the fuselage to see if they are similar in terms of length etc. I'll try and post back up with images. Cheers Toto I'm not sure if that will cause a problem but I do know that trying to set up dual elevators properly needs a bit of thought. Hopefully someone with a bit more experience will clarify Edited November 26, 2023 by Learner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidan mcatamney Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 This is how my elevators are joined inside the fuselage of my Tiger 40 Toto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 4 hours ago, Nick Cripps said: You mean like this, GG? I replaced the elevator pushrod on my Wot4 with a snake to help minimise water ingress when flying it with floats. As the pre-cut slot is well forward of the tailplane, I added a short balsa wedge in the angle to provide support to the snake outer. Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 A perfect snake install, by kc of this forum: And one of mine: note distance from horn to the point where the snake enters the fuselage, i try to make mine cross the side at 2.5" from the horn. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Nice work sir. 😎👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 It does indeed look very neat and I pay note to the distance from tube to horn. I assume you had the job of making the exit as opposed to it being dictated and created at the factory. The exit slot on my build is somewhat further back on the fuselage but I may be able to influence that going forward. It may just mean a bit more patching and covering up. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel R Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I did indeed have that job. That said - nothing to do you making the right slot for your install, and then sticking a patch of covering over the old one. For future reference (maybe) slec sell a neat moulded snake exit doodad which makes things look lovely when it's all together. I've used one on the elevator snake here: all manner of untidy holes and gobs of epoxy can be hidden by one of those. I use them on most of my airframes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 I think I have some of those exity thingmebobs..... I haven't started tying in the snakes to the horns yet so maybe some more work to do in moving the exits to create a smoother transition and a judicious amount of repair and recover work. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Wolfe Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 G'day toto. When using snakes I found that crossing the snakes to the opposite side of the fuselage exit gives a much gentler curve and smoother action than trying to run them straight with a dog-leg at the exit. In other words, rudder (or elevator) servo mounted on left side of the fuselage, snake curves gently to exit on the right side at the rear end. * Chris * 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 Hi Chris, That sort of makes sense. You dont have that rather abrupt last minute veer off to the side. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 I'm surprised that's not covered in the manual/instructions...... ah, wasn't it designed with solid pushrods? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 Yes .... it was designed with solid pushrods but the snakes were suggested as an alternative to try and smooth out some of the awkward geometry. There was not any real suggestion that going down this line was a bad idea. If that's the case, I'm simply going round in circles. I need to try and get this to a place where it is finished. I'll continue with the snakes to a position where they have been installed to a workable solution and test things from there. I really don't want to be jumping back and forward getting nowhere. I think the snakes at the front end ( servo tray end ) will now be rigid enough, I just need to decide whether the snakes are unsupported for too long between the rear exit point and the control horns. If so and only if so, I can try and create a new exit point further down the fuselage. I think that sounds like a reasonable plan. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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