Big Wig another nostagia build, from the 1970's?

[Alec Turnbull]

21 minutes ago, kc said:

Do you mean the Radio Control Guide by Norman Butcher?   Great book but very outdated in some respects - but fine for explanation of linkages especially the difference in high wing / low wing ailerons and servo arm offset for differential.   Modern separate servos for each aileron outdates this but still handy for single servo ailerons.

Some books are available on Outerzones sister site RC Library.   Model Aeroplane Building Sketch by Sketch by Peter Holland is there - invaluable info.

Amazon is a good place for aeromodelling books they often sell for 1p plus a couple of pounds postage! 

No, not that one, but did have that one in the day also, can't remember what happened to it probably lent it out and never saw it again, the RM Propo book was written by Radio Modeller staff, there are several on E Bay at the mo but i dont think I will bother I am trying to get rid of books not add to them!

Here is pic pinched from a E Bay listing

 

 

[kc]

 Norman Butcher was founder of Radio Modeller. I would expect the Prop book was based on the Radio Control Guide or vice versa.

[Alec Turnbull]

The wing of my BigWig is more or less finished and ready for covering, normally I would use Solafilm or Glosstex but as the wing is fully sheeted in 1/16 balsa and prone to me sticking my fat fingers through the skin I though maybe some glass covering would be better and more durable, not than it is possible to buy Glosstex anymore any way.

I expect that back in the day builders would have used silk or nylon and dope, whilst I have a good supply of silk its probably wasted on this model.

Before I could do the glassing I made up some ply covers for the linkages.

 

 

As I have never attempted to glass a wing before, I turned to YouTube and found a tutorial from West Systems in the USA he made it look easy of course, I am using Delux Aeropoxy purely as I have some in stock, mixed to the recommendations in the instructions with a little achohol added to thin it out.

 

I was careful as possible to brush out any bubbles, so we will see how it has come out in the morning.

In the West Systems video it did show using toilet paper to mop up the excess resin, I got a roll ready but in the end decided not to it did not appear to me that was very much to soak up, also West Systems say that it is not nessesary to give a second coat of resin but the Delux instructions say give it a second coat, confused? I am!

[Alec Turnbull]

This arrived in the post yesterday, and very interesting (to me that is) is is too, so for all the other nut cases on here that enjoy this sort of thing I have scanned the relevant pages for your delight!

I have had this magazine in my possesion before as I recognise the front cover and also remember the photos of the BigWig inside but do not recall the article at all.... strange, I wonder where I could have picked it up, published 1969 (the same year I passed my driving test!) but I did not start this hobby unitil about 1974 ish, I used to buy the magazine to read on my commute from Kent to  London Victoria Station, any way here are the pages

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I've got them inserted in the correct order, as you can see there is a part 2, I have found it of course on E Bayand hopefully it will be here in a few days, I recognise the front cover of that one as well.

 

[jeff2wings]

[kc]

According to the designer's son the Big Wig was the basis of the Army MATS gunnery target drone!

 

Somewhere in RCME years ago it said that L S Wigdor preferred to be called Wiggy because his first name was Lucien and at school they shortened that to  ' Lucy' so he reckoned it was better to be known as Wiggy!

 

[Alec Turnbull]

Thanks for that Jeff and KC, it seems Mr Wigdor was quite a prolific designer, I would like to know more about his life and other models, I am really pleased to have reserected this project.

[Alec Turnbull]

I am regretting the decision to glass the wings on my Big Wig, the amount of effort required to get even a half decent finish is quite incredible, and I don't think that I have achieved even that, so in future I will stick with what I know!

So, having glassed the main wing I also glassed the rudder, elevators, ailerons and flaps this kept me busy for a while.

 

Here they all are ready for primer and paint, I visited our local pound shop and bought some aerosol high build primer and some gloss white, completely underestimating how much I would eventually need, two more visits required in the fullness of time, expensive too!

 

Now I thought I had achieved a decent finish on the raw glass fibre so I ignored the instructions to give a second coat of resin, wrong! Once the first coat of high build primer was laid on it showed up every blemish, I whacked on some white primer hoping it would fill in the blemishes no such luck, so I bought some stopper

 

First coat of primer on

After rubbing down with wet and dry on with the white primer followed by the stopper in all the worst bits

 

 

I used this stopper, supposed the be easy to sand! Nope! Lots more rubbing down with wet and dry (applied with soapy water)

 

I gave up on the white primer for now and went back the grey high build, most of which got rubbed off whilst trying for a decent finish

 

Almost getting there, cant rub too hard as I was scared of going through the layer of glass

 

 

Last coat of primer on, I was losing the will to live at this point so I just wanted to get some colour on, In the end I went for Ford Frozen White, that dried matt so I had to go and get some clear coat lacquer, I was getting fed up now, of course while all this was going on I was also dealing with all the other anclllary parts which also needed the same amount of attention.

I ommitted to lake pictures of the colour coat going on so will skip to finished result in a mo.

I wanted a colour scheme like the pictures in the original 1969 Radio Modeller magazine, in the article Mr Wigdor hints at white and orange, I dont have any orange so fed up with buying paint I used the red that I have in stock.

I copied the stripes in the pictures, a lot of masking required, using Frog Tape

 

 

Here after the first coat, needed a couple more.

 

 

 

So this is where I am up to as of this morning, its time to attach the horizontal stabiliser and rudder, so setting the fuselage down on my (flat!) dining room table and checking all the important measurements I can now go ahead and glue the stab and fin in place.

I have some red film for the fusleage that matches the paint I have used on the trim, so I will cover that first before permanently fixing the fin and stab in place.

 

[ken anderson.]

hello Alec,i take my hat off to your skill,nice to see a traditional build...well done.

 

ken anderson...ne..1...trad build dept

[Alec Turnbull]

It takes longer to fettle a new model to flying condition than it does to build it in the first place........I have been on this since 7.00am this morning. So to relieve the tedium it has all come together to be weighed and for a few gratuitous pictues.

Radio is installed, more or less, just got to put the closed loop system in for the rudder and a few tidying up jobs and balance.

Here is the Big Wig in the back garden, looking quite good if I say so myself..........

 

 

 

Colour scheme is tribute to Mr Wigdors original (chosen as I have little imagination or creative ability!), I hope he would approve.......

Weight came out at exactly 9 lbs which includes a dirty great lipo, Mr Wigdor in his article in the Radio Modeller, says that a Big Wig will come out at over 8 lbs at least, and so it has, of course his would have been weighed empty, the final weight may change a little to bring the balance point in correctly but with the big lipo I dont think it will need much upfront.

I did beef up some of the wood sizes as I thought 1/16th balsa for fuselage sides was a little on the flimsy side and I also used 1/16 ply doublers instead of 1/32, and of course there is a lot of paint, any way I am quite happy with how it has turned out.

The rest of the jobs can wait until tomorrow when it is cooler in the garage.

 

 

 

 

[David Davis 2]

You've made a splendid job of it Alec!

[Alec Turnbull]

I have now flown the Big Wig for the first time, it did not go entirely to plan! The Big Wig is meant to be a slow flyer......however it was zooming away it a terrific speed if I throttled back it wanted to sink to the ground. Now I haven't flown anything much for over twenty years so was a bit nervous anyway, but I know something is wrong with the rigging. Anyhow it landed OK but I decided to take it home and check it out before scaring the pants off me again!

I was sure that I had built it to the plan as accurately as possible, what could be wrong? Maybe the balance point or wing incedence or even thrust line.

 

Rechecked the balance and its spot on, I didn't have any accurate way of checking the wing incedence so went on line and found a Great Planes laser incedence checker on E Bay, it turned up the other day so this morning I set it up as per the instructions

 

So we have an incedence of  negative half to three quarters of a degree, would that have such an impact on the handling? To get it to where it should be the leading edge would have to be lifted about a 1/4 of an inch, so maybe it would.

 

So I remade the wing saddle and tried again

 

This adjustment got me to about 1/2 degree positive incedence I left it at that as I do want it to fly slower, I can always sand it down a bit if it is a problem, so waiting for bit of fine weather to try again ( if my heart can stand it!)

 

 

[Nightflyer]

Wow long time since I have seen a Big Wig. Back.in the mid 70s I was in the Hastings MFC (Hastings and District as it was known then) and a couple of members had these. One being Merco 61 power the other Webra 61 power. One was modified not only that it could drop an Action Man parachutist whose chute didn't always open, but was also used as a Toffee Bomber in its day. Great model and very interested in the electric conversion. Keep us informed of flight tests and whether incidence change helps.

[kc]

Alec I hope you put more wing bands than those shown in the photo!  Even if you put 6 or 8 bands on they might not be enough to stop the wing lifting on a 9 pound plane.    Might be the problem?   Frankly rubber bands on a 9 pound model is not really to be advised ( in my opnion) and fitting wing bolts might be a good idea.  Also rubber bands don't last more than about 6 months -  I have changed all  six 6 inch bands twice this year on my 4 pound model.......

 

I strongly advise you to get a second opinion from a really good pilot who is well  in practice, before you make too many changes!   And working out the wing loading might also tell you something and probably explain why it is a bit of a handful. 

[Andy Gates]

I think you may find that your incidence in the photo using the incidence meter is positive not negative. But more importantly, what is the relationship between the wing and the tailplane in terms of incidences?

 

Superb build and finish - well done.

[David Davis 2]

Perhaps this question is only of peripheral relevance but how much of the 9lb weight is due to the LiPo?

 

I have an electrified Super 60. In order to get a decent flight time from it I have fitted a 3S 3300 LiPo. I believe that the combined weight of the motor, ESC and LiPo  exceeds the weight of a Merco 35, servo and fuel tank. I'll have to check.

 

Secondly, any six-foot wingspan model which weighs 9lbs is bound to fly fast. I used to import the Telemaster range of trainers from the USA. The "works" Telemaster 40 fitted with a 4S 6000mAh LiPo and optional flaps only weighed 6lbs and was capable of very slow flight. Of course the structure of the Telemaster is much lighter than that of the Big Wig, it doesn't have the Big Wig's fully sheeted wing for a start.

[John Rickett 102]

The Big Wig is a trip down memory lane for me. I built one in the early 70s when attempting to teach myself to fly. The appeal was that it was a little larger than the usual trainers of the day and had ailerons and flaps. I thought the combination would make a slow flying model which would be easier to see on those all too frequent occasions when a model got further and further away. As suggested, it was powered by a Merco 61. Control was from a SprengBrook radio set I believe. It was built as exactly to the plan as I could manage, I didn't attempt to alter anything, I knew very little about aerodynamics and as it was a published design, It would surely do as described in the blurb.    

Unfortunately, I quickly determined it wasn't going to be a good trainer for me - it was heavy, even covered in tissue, lively and fast.

Perhaps now it would be a nostalgic model to build again and I'm sure I could cope with the speed but at the time, after a few repairs which only increased the weight, it just joined the list of destroyed models in my quest to be a model pilot.

Good luck with the perseverance, I hope you get there in the end as you've made a fine looking model - its all good to see in an age when most flyers nowadays just want to open another big box and plug in the wings!      

[Alec Turnbull]

13 hours ago, kc said:

Alec I hope you put more wing bands than those shown in the photo!  Even if you put 6 or 8 bands on they might not be enough to stop the wing lifting on a 9 pound plane.    Might be the problem?   Frankly rubber bands on a 9 pound model is not really to be advised ( in my opnion) and fitting wing bolts might be a good idea.  Also rubber bands don't last more than about 6 months -  I have changed all  six 6 inch bands twice this year on my 4 pound model.......

 

I strongly advise you to get a second opinion from a really good pilot who is well  in practice, before you make too many changes!   And working out the wing loading might also tell you something and probably explain why it is a bit of a handful. 

The wing bands in the photo were just temporry to keep the wing on for the photo, for the flight I took the advice of club mates and put six on, seemed tight but what I will do now is make up some slightly extended dowels so can get more on.

 

9 hours ago, Andy Gates said:

I think you may find that your incidence in the photo using the incidence meter is positive not negative. But more importantly, what is the relationship between the wing and the tailplane in terms of incidences?

 

Superb build and finish - well done.

Andy, it is definitely negative, as the front edge of the wing is lifted with the incedence meter attached the laser dot moves down, to set up the incedence meter firstly the meter is zeroed on the tailplane then that setting is carefully transferred to the main wing the result is the difference, I went through the procedure many times to make sure I had it right and that the result was repeatable.

1 hour ago, David Davis 2 said:

Perhaps this question is only of peripheral relevance but how much of the 9lb weight is due to the LiPo?

 

I have an electrified Super 60. In order to get a decent flight time from it I have fitted a 3S 3300 LiPo. I believe that the combined weight of the motor, ESC and LiPo  exceeds the weight of a Merco 35, servo and fuel tank. I'll have to check.

 

Secondly, any six-foot wingspan model which weighs 9lbs is bound to fly fast. I used to import the Telemaster range of trainers from the USA. The "works" Telemaster 40 fitted with a 4S 6000mAh LiPo and optional flaps only weighed 6lbs and was capable of very slow flight. Of course the structure of the Telemaster is much lighter than that of the Big Wig, it doesn't have the Big Wig's fully sheeted wing for a start.

Hi David   The lipo (6500mah 60c 6s) weighs 1lb 9 ozs o 820 prams which is quite alot and oviously contributes to the overall weight, so maybe the faster flight is something that I have to accept it wont be a problem once I sort the handling.

 

Storms coming so it may be a while before I can try it again.

 

Thanks for all your comments.

[Alec Turnbull]

11 minutes ago, John Rickett 102 said:

The Big Wig is a trip down memory lane for me. I built one in the early 70s when attempting to teach myself to fly. The appeal was that it was a little larger than the usual trainers of the day and had ailerons and flaps. I thought the combination would make a slow flying model which would be easier to see on those all too frequent occasions when a model got further and further away. As suggested, it was powered by a Merco 61. Control was from a SprengBrook radio set I believe. It was built as exactly to the plan as I could manage, I didn't attempt to alter anything, I knew very little about aerodynamics and as it was a published design, It would surely do as described in the blurb.    

Unfortunately, I quickly determined it wasn't going to be a good trainer for me - it was heavy, even covered in tissue, lively and fast.

Perhaps now it would be a nostalgic model to build again and I'm sure I could cope with the speed but at the time, after a few repairs which only increased the weight, it just joined the list of destroyed models in my quest to be a model pilot.

Good luck with the perseverance, I hope you get there in the end as you've made a fine looking model - its all good to see in an age when most flyers nowadays just want to open another big box and plug in the wings!      

Well....there we are! perhaps Mr Wigdors idea of a slow fying model is little different from mine!

 

As another thought I will check the thrust line his morning the Great Planes incedence checker can be set up to that, so I will see if I have messed that up.

[kc]

Alec, I expect you know the old trick for extending wing dowels without removing the glued in dowels - I read it somewhere in one of David Boddington's articles.    Glue some short lengths of alloy tube over the existing dowels.   

 

[Alec Turnbull]

No I didnt know that! But the other trick is that I didn't glue them in in the first place.....

[kc]

That's an even better trick!

I still wonder whether rubber bands are really sufficient for a 9lb model.   My 4lb model uses 6 bands - proper SLEC white ones- and that's only just enough.   Wing bolts are actually cheaper than bands and don't wear out!

[Outrunner]

1 hour ago, kc said:

That's an even better trick!

I still wonder whether rubber bands are really sufficient for a 9lb model.   My 4lb model uses 6 bands - proper SLEC white ones- and that's only just enough.   Wing bolts are actually cheaper than bands and don't wear out!

 

The original model probably flew using rubber bands and I guess many bigger models used bands. 

[Alec Turnbull]

7 minutes ago, Outrunner said:

 

The original model probably flew using rubber bands and I guess many bigger models used bands. 

Thats correct and my thinking also, my bands are also SLEC I have a big bag of them

[Andy Gates]

13 hours ago, Alec Turnbull said:

Andy, it is definitely negative, as the front edge of the wing is lifted with the incedence meter attached the laser dot moves down, to set up the incedence meter firstly the meter is zeroed on the tailplane then that setting is carefully transferred to the main wing the result is the difference, I went through the procedure many times to make sure I had it right and that the result was repeatable.

Sorry Alec but I believe you are incorrect.

With the laser unit at the front of the wing and the target at the back, if meter was zeroed on the tail plane first in the same orientation then if the laser unit is higher than the target as in your photo then the wing has positive incidence in relation to the tailplane.

I know because I have one and use it extensively, and I have just been out to my build shed to replicate what you have.

Not too sure that 3/4 of a degree is sufficient on a model like that though, I would have expected something like double that.