Wot 4e

[Erfolg]

In the short time between holidays, I stuffed in my second hand Wot4e. What went wrong, I still cannot say, with anything resembling confidence.

 

Yet enough of it survived to make a resurrection viable. All I really needed badly was a new body for the Wot 4. A trawl on the Internet indicated that one could be mine, for just about £50 + p&p. Except all were out of stock. With Ripmax being in liquidation, I reckon it could be some time before bits become available yet again, if ever.

 

I have come to like this model to such an extent, that I did consider buying a new kit. Allthough they now seem pretty expensive, perhaps increasing in value, as stocks decline.

 

I though perhaps I could resurrect the bits I have.

 

I quickly came to the conclusion perhaps not.

 

What to do? Build a convention built up fuz is what I thought. I stuck as much of it back together with polyurethane foam as I coulld, in a straight, correct orientation as possible, as a starting point.

 

 

 

 

[GrumpyGnome]

Inwood Models show one as In Stock.....

[Robin Colbourne]

Erflog, given that EPO probably isn't the best material at the front of a model anyway, how about reproducing the front end in liteply or balsa and gluing it to the surviving back end?  I would be inclined to include the undercarriage mounting in the wooden structure too.

The alternative is to set up a search for 'Wot 4' on Facebook marketplace.  Thereare a considerable number on there from new in box to well flown.

[Erfolg]

I did seriously consider a new purchase.  dismissing second hand, as these seemed massively overpriced compared to new.

 

It is not just the miser in me, it is the ethos from the early 50s of, no waste, mend. Although eco concerns were not the driver back then, the concepts have lived on with me all my life.

 

I decided that I would draw up a conventional build. The process has gone through various phases. Firstly getting the shape right, this took longer, with many corrections, as the dimensions taken resulted with a shape, different to the glued together body, not by much, but different. Secondly I realised that Ripmax, Chriss Foss and the designer/manufacturer had taken maximum advantage of the material and manufacturing process, as is sensibly possible.

 

Next I came round to the idea that the more difficult and undamaged parts could be incorporated in a built body, becoming a Bitza. 

 

During the incorporation process, I came to realise the ingenuity, the quality of the manufacture, to gain my admiration, that the kit is value at the original and the lowest retail price. It is no cheapo foamy.

 

I still had not decided on the materials of construction, considering balsa, foam board, ply. In the end I decided on ply, with mixed other materials.

 

 

[Erfolg]

I have now completed my replacement body.

 

I have had problems with the tissue I have used, in that I could not prevent wrinkling when wetting out with WBV. I am not clear if I had used dope if this could have been avoided. I tried prewetted, applied wet and dry. Non prevented the wrinkles.

 

The body is ply, nearly one sheet of 6mm an 3mm sheet.

 

I now am continuing the reassembly of the salvaged components.

 

A £50 new body can be considered goodish value, when compared in the time and materials of a facsimile. If only they were currently on sale.

 

I just wonder who will pick up the rights and tooling to reissue the Wot4e. I have been impressed on how well and thought out the detail of the foamy as supplied by Ripmax.

 

 

[Erfolg]

I am coming to the last part of the rebuild of the WOT4e.

 

Using the original pick up points has worked.

 

 

[Geoff S]

Looks great. How does the weight compare to the original foam fuselage?

[Erfolg]

Geoff

 

I had thought of the issue, a little late, as I had started to take bits out of the original.

 

The standard Wot4 has a big chunk of metal in the back end, and the one I had needed some lead up front to get the CG in the right place.

 

Possibly the biggest clue will be when I finally check the CG properly. I am at a loss why there was meatl in the back end, particularly when lead was then needed up front.

 

Hoping todo the check tommorrow, if not then in te next few days.

[Erfolg]

I have now weighed the model. It is 1457g with 3s 2200 Lipo, 1039 no Lipo.

 

It appears that the posted weight of a Wot4e is 1450 ( I assume with a Lipo)

 

It appears on the face of it that it weights 7g heavier as a built up structure.

 

As to the cost, probably less than£20. On that basis £50 seems good value, as no real time is needed to complete the body. Also I used quite a few bits from the original. 

 

My driver was, I could not buy a new body, I have considered a new model, some prices are realistic £160, others +£250 seem a bit rich (for a lot of foam).

 

 

[Learner]

2 hours ago, Erfolg said:

I have now weighed the model. It is 1457g with 3s 2200 Lipo, 1039 no Lipo.

 

It appears that the posted weight of a Wot4e is 1450 ( I assume with a Lipo)

 

It appears on the face of it that it weights 7g heavier as a built up structure.

 

As to the cost, probably less than£20. On that basis £50 seems good value, as no real time is needed to complete the body. Also I used quite a few bits from the original. 

 

My driver was, I could not buy a new body, I have considered a new model, some prices are realistic £160, others +£250 seem a bit rich (for a lot of foam).

 

 

Wow thats a heavy battery, my 3s 2200 are about 170 ish 

[leccyflyer]

Yep, something wrong there - average weight of around 12 different 3s1p 2200mah lipos is 185g.

 

Do you have a pair of 3s1p 2200mah lipos paralleled up Erfolg? I'd be surprised if that would fit in the Wot 4 Foam-e.

[Erfolg]

I have now weighed the model. It is 1457g with 3s 2200 Lipo, 1039 no Lipo.

 

It appears that the posted weight of a Wot4e is 1450 ( I assume with a Lipo)

 

It appears on the face of it that it weights 7g heavier as a built up structure.

 

As to the cost, probably less than£20. On that basis £50 seems good value, as no real time is needed to complete the body. Also I used quite a few bits from the original. 

 

My driver was, I could not buy a new body, I have considered a new model, some prices are realistic £160, thers +£250 seem a bit r

 

 

[Erfolg]

Yep, a mistake, not sure (do not know) how.

 

The Lipo less weight is 1039g.

 

[Erfolg]

I have now got around to weighing the original  tail ballast. It weighs in at 61 g.

 

I had been thinking for some time why was it their.

 

When I acquired the Wot 4 I just assumed that the back end was heavy enough to need lead up front, to achieve an acceptable CG.

 

Once I started the break down of the original I was surprised to find the lump of metal. At that time I had other things upper most in my mind, with regard the building of a new body.

 

Now I tend to think that my 2200 3s is typical of what many would and do use. However I know that there will be some who will use larger batteries with greater weight. In that case the tail weight averts the possible use of adding the tail weight, as it has been done for use.  The addition of tail weight is something I think most modellers avoid, as it is unusual, something we think is not normal. Adding tail weight is something that many may not do well.

 

The more I have seen of the detail of the Wot 4e, the greater has been my appreciation of a very good design. Who took care of this aspect, be it, the tooling manufacturer, Ripmax, or Chris Foss, all I can say, quite exceptional.

 

Even the wing is a hollow moulding, which combines low weight and adquate strength.

[leccyflyer]

19 hours ago, Erfolg said:

Yep, a mistake, not sure (do not know) how.

 

The Lipo less weight is 1039g.

 

What is the lipo weight? From those two posts it suggests that the lipo weighs 418g, which is much more than any 3s1p 2200mah lipo, which would typically be something less than 200g.

[Erfolg]

I have recognised for some time that I am now old, as I have measured the Lipo weight, also thought I had posted the weight.

 

I have now just done it again @ 191g.

 

I assume that the empty weight measure was not accurate for some reason, possibly touching something, a recording error. 

 

I have not bothered to check if all the numbers tally, the main reason is that I am not bothered about the absolute weights. My priorities have been about CG and is the finished weight in an acceptable "ball park".

 

I was concerned at the effect that using Ply would have, as my normal ( a slave to convention and previous practice) would have been 1/8 (3mm) balsa sheet. There would then have been 1/4 (6mm) re-enforcements. In the recent past I have observed that many circa £3,000 to 5000 ARTF models are entirely constructed from pretty thin ply, where most of the material is removed, all cloaked in a moulded skin. The down side is any arrival results in a bag of bits. These models can be IC, Jet powered.

 

Even so, I was far from sure that I was making a viable model. I was full of concerns and doubts. Even though 56 years ago I built a 100s Sagitta made from 1/8" ply, with spruce stringers, 1/4" cross sheeting. As tough as old boots. I also have a 2m Sagitta, built from memory much the same. So why the current angst, again I assume old age, thing.

 

I did not worry about the resulting weight continually during design, construction. I now am thinking about how it will fly and again robustness. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Erfolg

[leccyflyer]

Thanks - my reason for asking is that, from your posts, you've made substantial alterations, but had said that the model, with the ply fuselage was just 7g heavier than the original Wot 4 Foam=E, but the weights listed didn't add up. I think I can see where the issue is now - the Wot 4 Foam-E nominal weight, according to the product specifications, is 1100g, not 1450g.

[Erfolg]

I have/did become a little concerned about the discrepancy in weights, so much that I have just reweighted the model again.

 

The weight now appears to be 1462g with lipo and 1270 without Lipo.

 

I had issues in zeroing the electronic scales, as I took items of. I also wondered why the gross weight was slightly higher today, compared with yesterday. Well I have modified the cowl, last evening, with the addition of another bit of 3d moulding. I could actually relatively easily reduce some of the weight from what it is. Then I think, is it actually worth the effort?

 

As a model, it is not yet a success,. Firstly that it flies as the original. Secondly will it be durable? The first should be easier to gauge, the second, is much harder, as my durable model/or is it models are possibly 50 years old. Unfortunately another 50 will not happen😢

Edited November 1, 2023 by Erfolg

[Learner]

A 10% weight gain is not ideal but hopefully you can get cg right by moving the battery around and not adding any more weight. You cant do that easily on the foamy, which is probably why its got added tail weight from the factory.

Cant remember the correct cg but I know the instructions were wrong in the early days and they flew better with it further back.

 

[Erfolg]

Learner, I make the gain  <1%, based on my model is now 1462g against the posted weight of a Wot 4e being 1450g. Of course in my dotage I seem to make more mistakes than in my youth.

 

Without planning, the CG comes out spot on what it originally flew on.

 

At the end of the day, what I now have, is what it is.

 

I also take the posted weight of models, be it kits or ARTF. In my experience, I always end up a bit heavier than the data supplied suggests. Something I have not mentioned is that the elevator and rudder are now using metal geared 9g types. Repeating myself, I am and was not chasing the minimum weight, so these servos are heavier than original.

 

I think I have only posted this process, as a prompter to others, it is not always necessary to dump ARTF models due to damage and an unavailability of spares. Previously, some years back I posted something similar on a Dornier 335 that I had damaged the nose. That was EPO with a new Blue Foam nose. Yet I have dumped a Horizon Model Stinson Reliant, in that case because it started stalling at medium speed. I wanted a new wing, could not buy one and could not work out what was wrong with the original wing, to build a replacement. Yep, I have often failed.

[Learner]

16 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

Learner, I make the gain  <1%, based on my model is now 1462g against the posted weight of a Wot 4e being 1450g. Of course in my dotage I seem to make more mistakes than in my youth.

 

Without planning, the CG comes out spot on what it originally flew on.

 

At the end of the day, what I now have, is what it is.

 

I also take the posted weight of models, be it kits or ARTF. In my experience, I always end up a bit heavier than the data supplied suggests. Something I have not mentioned is that the elevator and rudder are now using metal geared 9g types. Repeating myself, I am and was not chasing the minimum weight, so these servos are heavier than original.

 

I think I have only posted this process, as a prompter to others, it is not always necessary to dump ARTF models due to damage and an unavailability of spares. Previously, some years back I posted something similar on a Dornier 335 that I had damaged the nose. That was EPO with a new Blue Foam nose. Yet I have dumped a Horizon Model Stinson Reliant, in that case because it started stalling at medium speed. I wanted a new wing, could not buy one and could not work out what was wrong with the original wing, to build a replacement. Yep, I have often failed.

Are you basing your figures on a Wot 4 foamie or a Wot 4 e which is wood construction and a different model.

[Erfolg]

Yep, it seems you are correct.

 

The best I can work out that the Wot 4 Foamy-e actually comes in at 1300g,  once the Lipo and Rx is added in, the weight gain is 9% ( a lot less than 10% 😀). To save weight I would need to remove a lot of the ply at the back. not bothered varnishing/painting/painting the model.

 

I console myself in that hopefully I now have a model I can fly.

 

I will probably keep an eye open for another Foamy-e.

 

I assume that the wooden version has a bigger wing, than the e?

[Learner]

9 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

Yep, it seems you are correct.

 

The best I can work out that the Wot 4 Foamy-e actually comes in at 1300g,  once the Lipo and Rx is added in, the weight gain is 9% ( a lot less than 10% 😀). To save weight I would need to remove a lot of the ply at the back. not bothered varnishing/painting/painting the model.

 

I console myself in that hopefully I now have a model I can fly.

 

I will probably keep an eye open for another Foamy-e.

 

I assume that the wooden version has a bigger wing, than the e?

I think the wood E version is actually smaller and heavier and still  flies well but its not so popular 

yours should be fine.