David & Jay's Touring Toolshed on BBC2, tonight

[kc]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

I have a feeling that by the mid 70s when I took an interest, a full motorcycle licence (or accompanying licenced driver) was a requirement to drive a sub 7 cwt three wheeled car.  The Reliants only just squeezed in to this category by specifying the spare wheel as an optional extra!

We are slightly at cross purpose here.   You are right of course but I was referring to being an accompanied learner driver of a 3wheeler car at 16 - at one time reverse gear prevented that but later reverse gear was allowed.  So by 1966 it was legal to learn on a 3 wheeler car with reverse but not worth taking a test until 17 when one could get a full car licence by taking a test in a 4 wheel car ( not the 3 wheeler) which also gave motorcycle and lorry qualifications.  If the test was taken in a 3 wheeler you only got a motorcycle licence.  With a car licence one could drive any lorry - HGV licences only came in later about 1969.

 

But what fascinating conversation this has produced.   Interesting too that so many forum members did similar things in the past.  So many members had  either 2 stroke cars or 3 wheeler cars.

Edited February 2 by kc

[Eric Robson]

6 hours ago, kc said:

Martin mentioned Heinkel  -  I thought I was the only person on the forum who had driven a Heinkel!    Piloted might be a better term.

My brother wanted a vehicle he could learn to drive at 16 - the Heinkel 3 wheel bubblecar  was legal then even though it had reverse gear.   Found one advertised in Kent, bought it and the vendor said- after the deal was done - it's just like riding a motorbike with sidecar.   I didn't know quite what that meant until going down the hill in Rochester town centre when the traffic lights changed to red and I had to brake quickly ........veered first to left then right then left but it did stop.  Taught my brother to drive and on one occasion the brakes failed completely whilst going down a steep hill but he coped well - turned left into a side road!    He passed his test on a car then used the Heinkel every day to get to work.  The engine and gearbox seemed way too small at 179cc and the swing arm rear suspension looked just like a motor scooter placed inside a 2 seat tubular body which looked more like a cockpit from a WW2 plane.   Left over from the scooter origin was a tiny 7 amp hour battery like we use for model planes - started the thing in summer but in winter cold hopeless.   I got fed up with push starting the thing every morning so my brother found the singlehanded technique was to open the door ( right across the front in a bubblecar ) pull the clutch pedal whilst walking and pushing the car backwards in reverse gear - just release the clutch momentarily to flick the engine over and it started!   Worked everytime and only took 2 or 3 yards with him pushing backwards singlehanded. ( that way you couldnt run yourself over and anyway as long as you hung onto the clutch pedal it was disengaged! )

This Heinkel was German built so left hand drive but otherwise just like the Trojan which was made in Surrey.   Could have been a viable commuter car if it had a bigger engine and maybe more leg protection.   The drivers feet were almost in front of the wheels and just a single sheet of steel door protected them!   But of course that genious Issigonis invented the Mini and at £439 in 1960 it killed off bubblecars.   By 1963 one could still buy a Mini for £439 or economise and buy a Minivan at £397 ( no Purchase Tax on vans ) and bubblecars were history.

 

Maybe the Moderators should revise the title of this thread to 3 wheelers?

The early Heinkel scooters and bubble cars had the same engine which was prone to snapping exhaust valves. The valves were thinned where they were in the exhaust outlet to stop the carbon build up jamming them in the guide. Quite a few snapped the head off which dropped onto the piston damaging the engine. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

With a motorcycle and sidecar, it's quite an alien concept steering the bars while sitting on a bike if you're used to one.  I did remember the advice to accelerate through left handers on my one encounter with an outfit (attached to an original RE Bullet) and ease off in right hand turns - although I appreciate that you really wouldn't want to do any front wheel braking!  In fact, I once analysed my riding in relation to initiating the bank into a corner and was amazed to find that I was actually steering fractionally in the opposite direction to do so.

[i12fly]

Nice bit in tonight's episode with Summer Fisher and her helicopter. They didn't try to belittle her like they normally do with their 'customers'

[Geoff S]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

With a motorcycle and sidecar, it's quite an alien concept steering the bars while sitting on a bike if you're used to one.  I did remember the advice to accelerate through left handers on my one encounter with an outfit (attached to an original RE Bullet) and ease off in right hand turns - although I appreciate that you really wouldn't want to do any front wheel braking!  In fact, I once analysed my riding in relation to initiating the bank into a corner and was amazed to find that I was actually steering fractionally in the opposite direction to do so.

 

That's what makes sidecars so much fun - they're very manoeuvrable and steering with throttle just become second nature (like model flying).  In fact, I preferred a worn back tyre so I could get it to drift on right-handers.  I had a Steib S350 sidecar that ended up on a lot of bikes.  My friend's wife, who's probably in her 80s now, has a  BMW outfit she uses for shopping/touring and their son is a successful sidecar racer.  I never had a bike bigger than a 650cc; I'd love a go with a much more powerful modern outfit.  Unfortunately, I just don't have the space for one (or the money probably!).

 

I tried the pushing the handlebars in the opposite direction when riding solo and it certainly works but it wasn't my usual technique.