Eric Robson Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Yes the reverse had to be blanked off, I worked on Messerschmiitt's Heinkel's and BMW isetta bubble cars in the 1950's and we had to fit s plate over the reverse gate if the buyer had a motorcycle licence. This was held on by a single m6 bolt which the owner could and did easily remove once away from the dealer. The Bond minicar could turn within its own length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) That was the case at one time ED (and Eric) but was dropped in 1963. My Bond Bug had a lower centre of gravity than the Reliants that it was based on and it took me some effort to get it inverted but the downside of sitting on an inch or so of vinyl covered foam directly on the floor pan was that in slushy conditions the icy lumps from the road between the normal car ruts were thrown up and constantly drummed against the driver’s (and anyone brave enough to be a passenger’s) posterior. Edited February 2 by Martin Harris - Moderator Date update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: My first, dare I say 'car' was a Bond 3 wheeler, with the 197cc Villiars engine, 3 forward and with the 'dynastart' the engine would run backwards giving 3 reverse gears. The Messerschmitt reverse was selected by switching the engine off and pushing the key and barrel in to a stop then twisting it to start, the engine would then run backwards giving 4 reverse speeds. Never tried it honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 31/01/2024 at 10:36, Engine Doctor said: The show can be entertaining but the aero modelling bit last night shows just how concocted the show is and was rubbish . A flyer who's been flying for years who doesnt know how to fit out a simple model like an Astro hog without the help of an "expert" complete with Biggles sheepskin jacket on what was obviously a very warm day , really ? The bit about Reliant cars was just as poor due to trying to cover too much in a short time. And Sir David Jason trying to be funny isnt working , hes not funny without a Fools and horses script. Loosing interest fast in the show . Even the Repair Shop spends more time telling the tear jerky stories rather than showing the actual repairs being done. Will there be a second series ? I suspect and hope not. Poor old David Jason is just not suited to this type of programme IMHO - his other efforts outside of comedy and drama I find very irritating and although not wishing to be rude he really should give it a rest. This latest show is terrible and although I did sit through the awful aeromodelling bits 'for research purposes' I really couldn't stand any of the other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I’ve just done a little research and destroyed a long held myth… I had understood that the Messerschmitt Tiger (4 wheeled 500cc version of the KR200) which was reputed to be capable of 80mph in forward and reverse) was in fact built by the successor of the company, FMR, and had a conventional 4 speed and reverse gearbox and could only do 78mph. At least my personal claim to the world speed record in a bubble car is intact - achieved on tow (using my Dad’s hosepipe as a rope) in a Trojan (right hand drive British built Heinkel) behind a friend’s tuned up Cortina while on the way to the scrappy. I was too busy trying to keep it between the road kerbs to watch the speedo as instability took over, while the Cortina driver thought I was messing around and continued to accelerate until at 80 mph he felt me dabbing the brakes while directly behind him in a vain attempt to break the tow or stabilise the situation! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Henry Cole of 'Shed and Buried' and the Motorbike Show etc is an aeromodeller..............https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw6UJTyQVdo&t=455s Fast forward to the last couple of minutes if motorbikes aren't your thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 53 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: My first, dare I say 'car' was a Bond 3 wheeler, with the 197cc Villiars engine, 3 forward and with the 'dynastart' the engine would run backwards giving 3 reverse gears. You had a deluxe model then 😀 The standard came supplied with an ordinary villiers motorbike engine complete with kick start. You had to unlock the bonnet kick start the engine then lock it again again , from memory with one of those square keys . Then you could buy a dashboard starter kit. Sounds good doesnt it ? It was a pull handle with a length of steel cable that clamped to the kickstart lever. These were real accesorise and sold by Pride & Clarke in Brixton and George Clark in Balhamor from adds in Exchange And Mart. A Bond mini car was my first terrifying go behind the wheel while being towed behind a recovery motorcycle combination recovering a broken down Bond; this was on my second day at work at Elite Motors in Tooting ! It was a Tuesday . Left school on Friday started work on Monday thrown in the deepend on Tuesday 🙂. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 13 minutes ago, Cuban8 said: Henry Cole of 'Shed and Buried' and the Motorbike Show etc is an aeromodeller..............https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw6UJTyQVdo&t=455s Fast forward to the last couple of minutes if motorbikes aren't your thing. Thanks for that - I haven't seen Paul for years, the boy is looking well. Undercarriage lever a bit sticky sir? 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Although Henry might have been on some sticks, it looked like there was some wireless buddying going on… A bit of serendipity on this thread too if it was a Mick Reeves 1/6 scale Hurricane (see one of my earlier posts). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 According to the BMFA's Facebook page tonight's edition of the programme involved RC model helicopters. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001vkqf/david-jays-touring-toolshed-series-1-episode-10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC57 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Dare we risk watching it 😶! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 I've just flicked through it - I enjoyed the segment on the Tiger Club and their Druine Turbulents and the young lassie taking the presenters through a lesson on the flight simulator was okay , though a pity that she wasn't able to demonstrate her own flying, due to the no fly zone at the Midland Air Festival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Eric Robson said: The Messerschmitt reverse was selected by switching the engine off and pushing the key and barrel in to a stop then twisting it to start, the engine would then run backwards giving 4 reverse speeds. Never tried it honest. I have an original Messerschmitt-cabin-Scooter as it was called owners manual. Some interesting instructions were given, some quite comical. Quote, Sharp sudden braking can cause a skid on wet slippery roads. However do not be afraid to use the brakes, a new set of linings is cheaper than a trip to hospital. Winer running, Freezing of the hood lock can be discouraged by the application of some glycerine, however should it freeze application of a flame from your cigarette lighter or match will free it Seizure, If engine no longer pulls well and no longer responds to throttle or only slightly it the accelerator and the sound of the engine is different and amounts to scraping noises in the next two or three seconds the engine will stop. The danger now is rear wheel will lock and cause a skid turn sideways and possibly turn over. To avoid this put your foot on the clutch and off accelerator and let the vehicle roll to a stop at the side of the road and switch off your engine and wait until you have smoked a cigarette. You can then continue your drive taking care not to let the engine rev too hard at first. I kid you not, all from the manual!!! Max speed in book 62mph and milage 80mpg. Only first gear was available in reverse [ if system was adjusted correctly] Things sure have changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dilly 1 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Staying on the Bond Minicar topic (thread drift?) Tony Young of the Croydon club was a British team member flying F1A glider at the 1965 World Free Flight Championships at Kauhava airfield in Finland. He drove there in his Minicar and took a spare Villiers engine with him as well as his model box, just in case. The photo shows him filling up at a Finnish gas station. Worth the drive, as Britain won the glider team trophy against 21 other countries. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Saw now that the program has been puled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) Martin mentioned Heinkel - I thought I was the only person on the forum who had driven a Heinkel! Piloted might be a better term. My brother wanted a vehicle he could learn to drive at 16 - the Heinkel 3 wheel bubblecar was legal then even though it had reverse gear. Found one advertised in Kent, bought it and the vendor said- after the deal was done - it's just like riding a motorbike with sidecar. I didn't know quite what that meant until going down the hill in Rochester town centre when the traffic lights changed to red and I had to brake quickly ........veered first to left then right then left but it did stop. Taught my brother to drive and on one occasion the brakes failed completely whilst going down a steep hill but he coped well - turned left into a side road! He passed his test on a car then used the Heinkel every day to get to work. The engine and gearbox seemed way too small at 179cc and the swing arm rear suspension looked just like a motor scooter placed inside a 2 seat tubular body which looked more like a cockpit from a WW2 plane. Left over from the scooter origin was a tiny 7 amp hour battery like we use for model planes - started the thing in summer but in winter cold hopeless. I got fed up with push starting the thing every morning so my brother found the singlehanded technique was to open the door ( right across the front in a bubblecar ) pull the clutch pedal whilst walking and pushing the car backwards in reverse gear - just release the clutch momentarily to flick the engine over and it started! Worked everytime and only took 2 or 3 yards with him pushing backwards singlehanded. ( that way you couldnt run yourself over and anyway as long as you hung onto the clutch pedal it was disengaged! ) This Heinkel was German built so left hand drive but otherwise just like the Trojan which was made in Surrey. Could have been a viable commuter car if it had a bigger engine and maybe more leg protection. The drivers feet were almost in front of the wheels and just a single sheet of steel door protected them! But of course that genious Issigonis invented the Mini and at £439 in 1960 it killed off bubblecars. By 1963 one could still buy a Mini for £439 or economise and buy a Minivan at £397 ( no Purchase Tax on vans ) and bubblecars were history. Maybe the Moderators should revise the title of this thread to 3 wheelers? Edited February 2 by kc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 Or maybe not - maybe the moderators could please just leave the title as it is, on the topic it was intended but take the off-topic discussion about three wheelers to it's own thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I’m not sure that it’s gone that far OT as its title refers to the TV programme which featured 3 wheelers and that’s sparked memories of related vehicles although as the OP Leccy, that may not have been your intent. If there’s a general feeling that it should be split, I can certainly do so… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 The title refers to the programme, but in the context of the aeromodelling portion. I don't have any problem whatsoever to the three wheeler discussion remaining, but I do object to the thread being renamed, as suggested, especially when the three wheeler discussion isn't actually about the programme , but has moved away from that. If the thread title was changed it would be out of context for the sub forum on aeromodelling and aviation related videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J D 8 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Discussion moving away from original title is traditional on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Yes, the title (at least) is sacrosanct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Manuel Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 31/01/2024 at 10:02, Peter Christy said: I never understood the logic of having one wheel at the front and two at the back! It was always going to liable to tipping over while travelling forward. The Morgan design (two at the front and one at the rear) made much more sense, and whilst they too were not regarded as particularly safe or stable, that was more to do with the ludicrous power-to-weight ratio than the layout! 🤣 -- Pete I think that Freddy Flintoff might disagree with you here. It was one of these Morgan 3 wheelers that caused his life changing injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 4 hours ago, Engine Doctor said: They could also be driven I believe on a motorcycle licence like many three wheelers , although I seem to remember that you had to blank off the reverse gear ? was that correct ? They could be driven on a motorcycle licence at the age of 16, however 'no reverse gear' was a requirement at one time but was no longer applicable by 1966. It could be a weight restriction instead classed them as a motorcycle then as some lorries were 3 wheelers - Scammel as used by British Rail etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I have a feeling that by the mid 70s when I took an interest, a full motorcycle licence (or accompanying licenced driver) was a requirement to drive a sub 7 cwt three wheeled car. The Reliants only just squeezed in to this category by specifying the spare wheel as an optional extra! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I suppose I've done a lot of 3 wheel travelling. For many years, motorcycles were my only means of both sport (trials) and transport and a sidecar was used in both categories. I had a 1949 ex-works BSA trials sidecar outfit I used as my means of transport back in the 1960s - it was very narrow and it was safer to negotiate right handers by lifting the chair on the approach and leaning like a solo! You can cope with a lifting sidecar but not a lifting back wheel! It was fun but I must have been mad (or perhaps just young). When we took up cycling as a means to get fit for sailing, I eventually bought a racing trike for ice and snow. I built it up in the lounge one evening (warmer). I took it out for a test on the packed snow, then rode it to work the following day! They're harder to ride than you might think. It's amusing to offer a ride to someone who's never ridden one and watch them head for the grass verge 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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